How to handle North Korea?

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How to handle North Korea?

Post by leo_the_greatest on Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:58 pm

What are some of your ideas on how to handle North Korea without the potential destruction of East Asia? Most people fail to consider the anxiety that is associated with having a gargantuan military presence on your border from a country that purposefully eradicated 20% of your population the last time you fought -one could only imagine what the reaction would be if Canada laid waste to New York City, signed a cease-fire, and then stacked the Ontario province with rockets, tanks, and thousands of troops.

I personally feel that the only way forward is to allow NK to remain in possession of their nukes as they are the only thing currently deterring Trump and co. from bulldozing their nation into the dust, but to open up a diplomatic channel and slowly begin limiting military activity on either side of the border. It may take a very long time, but without the constant threat of Western invasion, the North may take the focus away from defense and eventually liberalize their society in which more serious reforms can be attempted. Let me know your ideas down below.
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Re: How to handle North Korea?

Post by Jake Mapper on Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:08 pm

Work with China into deescalation of North Korea. China is already starting to back off from North Korea due to them trying to disassociate themselves from the crisis between North Korea and the West. Also North Korea almost entirely relies on China on the world stage and also against the west and also on a domestic level. With that opportunity negotiation with China could open up to where China forces North Korea to deescalate and remove any possible nuclear weapons. I could see it going like this: China condemns North Korean Use of nuclear weapons and turns against North Korea due to this with Trade between the two being weened somewhat. Meanwhile Negotiations with North Korea occur at the same time on putting and end to the situation. In exchange for removing any possible Nuclear weapons and having some international search for any possible Nuclear weapons in North Korea, SK and US forces stop buildup at the Border and deescalate and also China trade blockade and support at the international level resumes.
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Re: How to handle North Korea?

Post by EmperorTigerstar on Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:15 pm

Jake is right. China has the biggest influence over them so they're the best chance short of a military war
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Re: How to handle North Korea?

Post by Voytek on Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:50 am

Best bet is to just let China follow their long term plan.

North Korea used to be useful for China as a buffer against the US presence in the Korean Peninsula, not to mention the vehemently anti-Chinese Japan and South Korea. But now as the Cold War is over and tensions in the region have died down significantly China is aiming to win over SK using both their coming economic prowess, SK and Japan's troubled relationship and NK. Both countries know that economic cooperation would be highly beneficial, as would a mutual alliance against Japan. Obviously SK and Japan are both in the US bloc but that is likely to change in the near future as NK is forced by China into negotiations and disarmament and as China's rise casts a shadow over the advantages of the US bloc for SK. Reunification would be exceptionally good for SK as it would provide stability to the region, reunite the Korean ethnic group and individual families, provide billions in mineral resources and provide a big boost to whatever SK political party is seen to be the mastermind of it. NK and their nuclear weapons are just the Kim dynasty's way of trying to maintain a foothold of influence but it won't help in them longrun.

Most likely outcome is that NK and SK reunite sometime in the 2040/2050s due to a Chinese dominated peace effort in which the US also participates. The new Korean Republic has already by this time become a steadfast Chinese ally, not so much against the US (although US military presence in the country would certainly be gone or leaving), but against a newly resurgent Japan who remains a US ally. This could be somewhat circumvented by a US moderation of a SK-Japanese reconciliation but that would most likely just delay NK-SK reunion and weaken SK's position which I don't think they want.

(bear in mind this is very much so speculation but I at least think it sounds plausible. what happens to Taiwan would also influence this I think)
(edited for prosperity)
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Re: How to handle North Korea?

Post by Loopdelooper on Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:17 am

Well I think to handle North Korea the western Nations first have to negotiate with superpowers like Russia and China. If the Negotiations succeed than there are 2 options. The first option is to create big economic sanctions for North Korea what will led to a revolution in the nation. Than the rebels most be supported with money and arms and North Korea's nuclear weapons must be secured by special forces before something happens with it. Rebels will probably overthrown the government and Korea will be united. There is also a second option. In the second option The western nations and maybe Russia and china declare war on North Korea. They defeat North Korea and after that they unite Korea. But what if the negotiations fail and Russia and China keep supporting North Korea. Well than a missile shield must be built against North Korea's missiles. Also nations like south Korea and Japan have to get more military support. And maybe the western nations must try to create a revolution in North Korea if they have the opportunity. I think this is how to handle North Korea.
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Re: How to handle North Korea?

Post by TrueCommunistDoggo on Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:28 pm

Loopdelooper wrote:The first option is to create big economic sanctions for North Korea what will led to a revolution in the nation. Than the rebels most be supported with money and arms and North Korea's nuclear weapons must be secured by special forces before something happens with it. Rebels will probably overthrown the government and Korea will be united.

Unfortunately, North Korea couldn't care less about economic sanctions, they are already drowning in them. Both the leadership and the population of North Korea would be happy to starve to death in order to maintain the structural integrity of their nation, propaganda can drive people to do incredible things in defence of what they think they should believe in. As well as that, you would have a hard time getting any rebels, the North Korean population are truly loyal, for the most part, to Kim Jong Un and the state.

Loopdelooper wrote:The western nations and maybe Russia and china declare war on North Korea. They defeat North Korea and after that they unite Korea.

There is practically no chance that China or Russia would intervene with North Korea never mind side with foreign western powers. North Korea poses no threat to Russia as well as that they share common enemies and China needs North Korea to act like a 'buffer' between it and the U.S. So you can ignore any chance of them supporting actions against North Korea.

Loopdelooper wrote:a missile shield must be built against North Korea's missiles. Also nations like south Korea and Japan have to get more military supports .

The U.S actually already have a missile shield called the National Missile Defence System or NMD that has been being put together since the '90s. However, as far as I know it was only designed to intercept ballistic missiles not nuclear. However, I don't think you could intercept a nuclear missile effectively anyway as you would just be exploding it mid flight resulting in a huge spread of radiation all across the globe.
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Re: How to handle North Korea?

Post by BOSSMANTOSSCAN on Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:15 pm

I personally am of the opinion that we act as a ally of north Korea or at lest a friend. As i see Korean history has essential one big game of playing foreign powers against one another at one point it was china v the mongols and at a another japan v china( in the lead up to the first snip-Japanese war) and in the cold war it was china v Russia. Today china is the sole benefactor of the north Korean regime and hence a huge amount of reserve and overt influence in the nation which I believe is actually contrary to Korean wishes, and i believe that various crises that are playing out now are a Korean attempt to assert their independence. Hence we must either directly or through third parties( japan, sauidies, Iceland or Kenya etc) establish a working relationship with north Korea and allow the northerners to recreate the balancing act. This should clam down the regime and allow us to slowly ideologically infiltrate as well to alleviate any humanitarian problems they might be encountering.
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Re: How to handle North Korea?

Post by DavidlVofGeorgia on Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:06 pm

http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/prk/

China, India, and Pakistan still do business with North Korea. The solution is to 100% block both Imports and Exports. That is the only way you can starve the regime to death.

Furthermore, the CDC has numerous devastating diseases quarantined in labs. If they were released or air dropped onto major Korean population centers then the crowded-poor living conditions and lack of medicine would drive the regime to the brink.

The USA also needs to allow Japan to change its Constitution to allow it to create a formal military and defend itself if attacked. Germany has both of these things.
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Re: How to handle North Korea?

Post by Cold War Communist on Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:57 pm

DavidlVofGeorgia wrote:The USA also needs to allow Japan to change its Constitution to allow it to create a formal military and defend itself if attacked. Germany has both of these things.

The U.S. is not preventing Japan from changing its constitution. That is Japan alone. They recently amended their constitution to allow for more military spending, but it was not without great controversy. Japan is very aware of their history and swore off standing armed forces after WWII. They do allow military for exclusively home defense, which means they sit on the archipelago and defend it if attacked and only defend.

As far as the Korean situation, there are two options. One is to strike now or later and kickstart WWIII. The other is to immediately suspend all military exercises, give modest concessions, and hold direct face-to-face talks with the Kim regime.
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Re: How to handle North Korea?

Post by DavidlVofGeorgia on Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:37 pm

Any deal that removes sanctions would require that Kim destroys or surrenders his nukes.

I can't imagine a situation were the West would allow the nukes but drop sanctions.
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Re: How to handle North Korea?

Post by Napoleon Bonaparte on Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:53 pm

I believe the only way North Korea is going to be handled would be a coup from the inside.
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Re: How to handle North Korea?

Post by Cobius on Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:45 pm

Some here have suggested that the DPRK would naturally liberalize their society. I cannot see this happening as long as the Kim family remains in power. If North Korea does have nukes, then they need to be stopped before the start WWIII. In the ideal scenario, China agrees to assist in an attack on North Korea from the north while US bombers deal heavy damage to NK artillery and military bases, with the hope of minimizing civilian causalities in South Korea, particularly Seoul. Paratroopers can enter Pyongyang and Kim's house to seize the dictator and force him to order the military to stand down. In exchange China gets some of North Korea, while the US retracts all troops from Korea and never interferes with the politics of the unified Korea. Either way, it would be a bad war. (sanctions will not work, that has been proven.)

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Re: How to handle North Korea?

Post by DuceMoosolini on Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:48 pm

This is going to be more an exploration of possible challenges and opportunities rather than a solution, simply because I'm not sure if this crisis actually has a solution.

China won't fix this situation for us without major incentives. A North Korean governmental collapse would be a disaster for China. They would have millions of refugees streaming northwards towards the only safe land they can find, not to mention a highly dangerous nuclear-armed failed state sitting on their border, probably experiencing massive chaos. But we need China, as North Korea gets its coal and other nuclear-related materials from them. So far, China has refused to cut them off.

China won't allow a coup, and China will absolutely oppose a military solution and any attempts to induce total collapse of Kim's economy. So the US needs to pressure China. Unfortunately, relatively few things frighten the Chinese. A popular revolt is easily number one, but the US has no way to force one into existence. Economic sanctions are a good threat, but they would be just as harmful to the US, and big businesses won't let that happen. Threatening to arm Japan is a possibility, but that requires the cooperation of a  very, very reluctant foreign partner. Threatening a solo war against North Korea could frighten them, but this would make America look very bad on the world stage, and eventually you'd have to live up to it. China just doesn't have very many pressure points the US can exploit, so they have no incentive to change the status quo so long as Kim isn't stupid enough to start a war.

Korean reunification is a fantasy. China would never let that happen, as Seoul would assuredly be the dominant partner in that relationship. Remember what happened to NATO when Germany reunited? Also, South Korea won't even want to reunite. They'd be ingesting a land area with no modern infrastructure or industry and an uneducated population indoctrinated with lies and afflicted by starvation and other health problems. South Korea's welfare programs would have to care for at least 25 million brutalized people who have no way to pay into the program. The bare minimum cost estimate for reunification is about $1 trillion, not exactly chump change. They'd inherit the North's mineral deposits and relatively young workforce, but this definitely won't offset the costs.

War with North Korea would be bad now, and will only get worse the further into the future it gets. Kim's army would artillery barrage the South and cause extensive damage and death. And we also don't know how cooperative Japan would be. Most of their missiles are mounted on trucks, so we can forget about destroying their launch capacity. They'd just drive out of the woods, launch, and disappear again. Of course, America would win. But it's not about win or lose. It's about how many people Kim can drag into the abyss with him when we finally take him down.

I'll just end it off like this: the situation is at a complete impasse, and the first person who figures out how to resolve the Korean crisis will win a Nobel Peace Prize on the spot.
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Re: How to handle North Korea?

Post by Cold War Communist on Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:14 pm

I am going to maintain that the only solution to this issue is to treat the DPRK as a peer in this situation. Consider that we are discussing "how to deal" with an entire country, as if it is violating some law by existing for 60 years.

We owe the Korean people, both north and south, better than this. We owe them a chance to unify and resolve their dispute on their terms, which we did not do decades ago.
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Re: How to handle North Korea?

Post by DavidlVofGeorgia on Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:28 am

Nothing is stopping the Korean peninsula from unifying but China. We all know from Germany that the capitalist country will simply absorb the Communist.
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Re: How to handle North Korea?

Post by Kim Jong-un on Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:15 pm

First, a little background:

The history of the DPRK has been marked by a continuous struggle by the Kim regime to entrench themselves in a position of power and use all measures necessary to neutralize any conceivable threat to their position.

The obvious way to eliminate any dissent from within has been to implement a brutal totalitarian system that uses propaganda, censorship, indoctrination, and a cult of personality to brainwash the entire population and prevent any of them thinking for themselves. This has been highly effective in securing the security of the regime from the inside.

However, North Korea has one weakness: defense. North Korea is a very small country, and while they have one of the largest military forces in the world by sheer size, the military is outdated and still uses cold-war era technology. The paranoid efforts by the regime to prevent people from getting an education have made scientific progress and innovation impossible. North Korea, therefore, has always been incapable of defending itself against hostile powers.

During the Cold War, the DPRK was able to get around this problem by relying on its communist allies to protect it. During the Korean War, for example, they were easily crushed by Western forces until the Chinese People's Volunteer Army intervened on their behalf.

Unfortunately for them, since the end of the cold war, this international support network has essentially dissolved. The collapse of the Soviet Union and the warming of relations between China and the West left North Korea alone in the global arena.

They're completely isolated now, but one miraculous solution has saved them from destruction thus far:
NUKES: THE GREAT EQUALIZER

The beautiful thing about nuclear weapons is that they allow even the weakest of states to prohibit any military action against them under a credible threat of complete and utter annihilation, just as a firearm can be used by a child of ten years as a credible deterrent against a knife attack from a world-class martial artist.

This is the reason Kim Jong-un is safe from any offensive action by the USA or the ROK. The United States, though it possesses the most formidable military force on Earth, is completely incapable of withstanding a nuclear attack. The Americans can make all the threats they want, and they'll have no trouble delivering on their promises and turning South Korea into an island if necessary, but if that happens there will be few Americans, South Koreans, or Japanese left to revel in their victory.

Therefore, the only thing we can do to improve the situation in Korea is to rally the East Asian powers, particularly China, to enforce sanctions, cut off resources, and constrict the DPRK until their little Juche experiment in self-sufficiency runs out of steam.
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Re: How to handle North Korea?

Post by Johnnythewizard on Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:32 pm

China would NEVER help us. I'm sure China secretly wants to keep North Korea to use as a buffer zone against South Korea and Japan.

Here's how I would go about it:

Step 1: Send an ultimatum to China: either they stop purchasing North Korean coal or we enforce sanctions. Should China disagree to these terms, then we move on to Step 2.

Step 2: Pour resources into Japan and South Korea, and warn North Korea (with words backed by NUCLEAR WEAPONS) to back off. If North Korea does not respond, move on to Step 3.

Step 3: Give last and final warning to North Korea. If no effect, then move on to Step 4.

Step 4: Launch airstrikes against key targets, if North Korea uses nuclear weapons against Japan or South Korea, or if North Korea does not agree to any given terms, then move on to Step 5.

Step 5: Lead a coalition invasion into North Korea. If North Korea does not surrender, or if Pyongyang cannot be captured within 4 years, then move on to Step 6.

Step 6: Launch a nuclear warhead at Pyongyang. If North Korean leadership still does not respond, move on to step 7.

Step 7: Destroy more cities in North Korea until crisis is resolved, even if every city in the country must be flattened.

This all sounds very harsh, but it's the only language Pyongyang understands.
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Re: How to handle North Korea?

Post by Kim Jong-un on Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:54 pm

Johnnythewizard wrote:China would NEVER help us. I'm sure China secretly wants to keep North Korea to use as a buffer zone against South Korea and Japan.

Here's how I would go about it:

Step 1: Send an ultimatum to China: either they stop purchasing North Korean coal or we enforce sanctions. Should China disagree to these terms, then we move on to Step 2.

Step 2: Pour resources into Japan and South Korea, and warn North Korea (with words backed by NUCLEAR WEAPONS) to back off. If North Korea does not respond, move on to Step 3.

Step 3: Give last and final warning to North Korea. If no effect, then move on to Step 4.

Step 4: Launch airstrikes against key targets, if North Korea uses nuclear weapons against Japan or South Korea, or if North Korea does not agree to any given terms, then move on to Step 5.

Step 5: Lead a coalition invasion into North Korea. If North Korea does not surrender, or if Pyongyang cannot be captured within 4 years, then move on to Step 6.

Step 6: Launch a nuclear warhead at Pyongyang. If North Korean leadership still does not respond, move on to step 7.

Step 7: Destroy more cities in North Korea until crisis is resolved, even if every city in the country must be flattened.

This all sounds very harsh, but it's the only language Pyongyang understands.

If that's your plan, you've officially lost the right to complain when everyone and everything you've ever loved is obliterated by Chinese nuclear warheads.
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Re: How to handle North Korea?

Post by Johnnythewizard on Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:51 am

Max Hess wrote:
Johnnythewizard wrote:China would NEVER help us. I'm sure China secretly wants to keep North Korea to use as a buffer zone against South Korea and Japan.

Here's how I would go about it:

Step 1: Send an ultimatum to China: either they stop purchasing North Korean coal or we enforce sanctions. Should China disagree to these terms, then we move on to Step 2.

Step 2: Pour resources into Japan and South Korea, and warn North Korea (with words backed by NUCLEAR WEAPONS) to back off. If North Korea does not respond, move on to Step 3.

Step 3: Give last and final warning to North Korea. If no effect, then move on to Step 4.

Step 4: Launch airstrikes against key targets, if North Korea uses nuclear weapons against Japan or South Korea, or if North Korea does not agree to any given terms, then move on to Step 5.

Step 5: Lead a coalition invasion into North Korea. If North Korea does not surrender, or if Pyongyang cannot be captured within 4 years, then move on to Step 6.

Step 6: Launch a nuclear warhead at Pyongyang. If North Korean leadership still does not respond, move on to step 7.

Step 7: Destroy more cities in North Korea until crisis is resolved, even if every city in the country must be flattened.

This all sounds very harsh, but it's the only language Pyongyang understands.

If that's your plan, you've officially lost the right to complain when everyone and everything you've ever loved is obliterated by Chinese nuclear warheads.

I doubt Chinese leadership would use nuclear weapons before we do. And as sad a day it would be, my family would survive because we live so far away from a city that not even a TSAR BOMBA against the nearest city would affect us.

And I know that is disgustingly selfish, but that's war.
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Re: How to handle North Korea?

Post by Kim Jong-un on Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:36 am

Johnnythewizard wrote:
Max Hess wrote:
Johnnythewizard wrote:China would NEVER help us. I'm sure China secretly wants to keep North Korea to use as a buffer zone against South Korea and Japan.

Here's how I would go about it:

Step 1: Send an ultimatum to China: either they stop purchasing North Korean coal or we enforce sanctions. Should China disagree to these terms, then we move on to Step 2.

Step 2: Pour resources into Japan and South Korea, and warn North Korea (with words backed by NUCLEAR WEAPONS) to back off. If North Korea does not respond, move on to Step 3.

Step 3: Give last and final warning to North Korea. If no effect, then move on to Step 4.

Step 4: Launch airstrikes against key targets, if North Korea uses nuclear weapons against Japan or South Korea, or if North Korea does not agree to any given terms, then move on to Step 5.

Step 5: Lead a coalition invasion into North Korea. If North Korea does not surrender, or if Pyongyang cannot be captured within 4 years, then move on to Step 6.

Step 6: Launch a nuclear warhead at Pyongyang. If North Korean leadership still does not respond, move on to step 7.

Step 7: Destroy more cities in North Korea until crisis is resolved, even if every city in the country must be flattened.

This all sounds very harsh, but it's the only language Pyongyang understands.

If that's your plan, you've officially lost the right to complain when everyone and everything you've ever loved is obliterated by Chinese nuclear warheads.

I doubt Chinese leadership would use nuclear weapons before we do. And as sad a day it would be, my family would survive because we live so far away from a city that not even a TSAR BOMBA against the nearest city would affect us.

And I know that is disgustingly selfish, but that's war.

Good luck surviving the fallout and radiation though.
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Re: How to handle North Korea?

Post by DuceMoosolini on Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:17 am

Johnnythewizard wrote:China would NEVER help us. I'm sure China secretly wants to keep North Korea to use as a buffer zone against South Korea and Japan.

Here's how I would go about it:

Step 1: Send an ultimatum to China: either they stop purchasing North Korean coal or we enforce sanctions. Should China disagree to these terms, then we move on to Step 2.

Step 2: Pour resources into Japan and South Korea, and warn North Korea (with words backed by NUCLEAR WEAPONS) to back off. If North Korea does not respond, move on to Step 3.

Step 3: Give last and final warning to North Korea. If no effect, then move on to Step 4.

Step 4: Launch airstrikes against key targets, if North Korea uses nuclear weapons against Japan or South Korea, or if North Korea does not agree to any given terms, then move on to Step 5.

Step 5: Lead a coalition invasion into North Korea. If North Korea does not surrender, or if Pyongyang cannot be captured within 4 years, then move on to Step 6.

Step 6: Launch a nuclear warhead at Pyongyang. If North Korean leadership still does not respond, move on to step 7.

Step 7: Destroy more cities in North Korea until crisis is resolved, even if every city in the country must be flattened.

This all sounds very harsh, but it's the only language Pyongyang understands.

I get where you're coming from, but I'm afraid I see significant problems with every step of this proposed action plan.

Step 1). You can't sanction a country you're economically reliant upon. Well, I suppose you can, but that's what we call an "economic suicide bombing." Regardless, the political will to sanction China to any significant just doesn't exist. The only real option for a sanctions regime is to target a few oligarchs and banks, and that would be purely a symbolic gesture which wouldn't accomplish anything.

Step 2). I agree with you on warning North Korea against a war. Personally, my policy might involve threats to shoot down NorK's next missile test. However, this plan planck requires cooperation from Japan and South Korea. Neither one would participate in any military action against the North. Let's start with the South. Right now, they're reluctant to so much as deploy THAAD units for missile defence. Considering the North is effectively holding Seoul hostage with artillery, a preemptive strike would be met with immediate hostility from the South's people and leaders. Meanwhile Japan has its own problems and is already worried about the stability of their alliance with the US. Even if we felt comfortable moving forward without the Japs, we absolutely will not and can not act without the blessing of the South.

Step 3). The North has no reason whatsoever to view US threats as credible.

Steps 4 and 5). There are significant reasons why literally no one in the Pentagon thinks it's a good idea to do any of this. Remember, we've already been down this road with the Korean War. And the North hasn't spent the last 60+ years sitting around with their thumbs up their asses. They have chemical and biological weapons, they have extensive fortifications defending artillery and strongpoints, they have bunkers for VIPs, and they have a military of 1.2 million active personnel and the ability to call up around 5-7 million more on relatively short notice. The North would lose, but so long as Kim stays alive (and probably even if he dies) we'd be looking at a brutal counter-insurgency battle happening right across the border from a hostile China. There is no version of events that ends with a US victory. Sure, Kim's regime would collapse, but good luck figuring out what to do next.

Step 6). Notice I haven't mentioned nukes yet. Because this is where it gets really bad. First things first, we won't kill Kim. The Northerners would quickly spirit him into some rural bunker, and they'd move him around through tunnels as needed. These people learned their harsh lessons from the last war about what American air power can do. Once we use a nuke, though, Kim will decide to go down in a blaze of glory. He'll launch back at us. And we don't know how many missiles we can take out. We can't destroy his strike capability as I said above, because he launches from trucks. I don't think any long range missile with reach the US mainland, but Asia and the Pacific are vulnerable. A lot of people are gonna die there.

Step 7). I think everyone here knows just how little Kim cares about NorK civilians. They're his victims, not his people. Everyone important will be hidden in bunkers. Everyone else can die. You're not shooting the bad guy. You're just shooting his hostages so he doesn't have to.

Really, the best option is the same one we used during the Cold War. Keep the peace and wait for communism to kill the enemy so we don't have to.
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Re: How to handle North Korea?

Post by Johnnythewizard on Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:45 pm

DuceMoosolini wrote:
Johnnythewizard wrote:China would NEVER help us. I'm sure China secretly wants to keep North Korea to use as a buffer zone against South Korea and Japan.

Here's how I would go about it:

Step 1: Send an ultimatum to China: either they stop purchasing North Korean coal or we enforce sanctions. Should China disagree to these terms, then we move on to Step 2.

Step 2: Pour resources into Japan and South Korea, and warn North Korea (with words backed by NUCLEAR WEAPONS) to back off. If North Korea does not respond, move on to Step 3.

Step 3: Give last and final warning to North Korea. If no effect, then move on to Step 4.

Step 4: Launch airstrikes against key targets, if North Korea uses nuclear weapons against Japan or South Korea, or if North Korea does not agree to any given terms, then move on to Step 5.

Step 5: Lead a coalition invasion into North Korea. If North Korea does not surrender, or if Pyongyang cannot be captured within 4 years, then move on to Step 6.

Step 6: Launch a nuclear warhead at Pyongyang. If North Korean leadership still does not respond, move on to step 7.

Step 7: Destroy more cities in North Korea until crisis is resolved, even if every city in the country must be flattened.

This all sounds very harsh, but it's the only language Pyongyang understands.

I get where you're coming from, but I'm afraid I see significant problems with every step of this proposed action plan.

Step 1). You can't sanction a country you're economically reliant upon. Well, I suppose you can, but that's what we call an "economic suicide bombing." Regardless, the political will to sanction China to any significant just doesn't exist. The only real option for a sanctions regime is to target a few oligarchs and banks, and that would be purely a symbolic gesture which wouldn't accomplish anything.

Step 2). I agree with you on warning North Korea against a war. Personally, my policy might involve threats to shoot down NorK's next missile test. However, this plan planck requires cooperation from Japan and South Korea. Neither one would participate in any military action against the North. Let's start with the South. Right now, they're reluctant to so much as deploy THAAD units for missile defence. Considering the North is effectively holding Seoul hostage with artillery, a preemptive strike would be met with immediate hostility from the South's people and leaders. Meanwhile Japan has its own problems and is already worried about the stability of their alliance with the US. Even if we felt comfortable moving forward without the Japs, we absolutely will not and can not act without the blessing of the South.

Step 3). The North has no reason whatsoever to view US threats as credible.

Steps 4 and 5). There are significant reasons why literally no one in the Pentagon thinks it's a good idea to do any of this. Remember, we've already been down this road with the Korean War. And the North hasn't spent the last 60+ years sitting around with their thumbs up their asses. They have chemical and biological weapons, they have extensive fortifications defending artillery and strongpoints, they have bunkers for VIPs, and they have a military of 1.2 million active personnel and the ability to call up around 5-7 million more on relatively short notice. The North would lose, but so long as Kim stays alive (and probably even if he dies) we'd be looking at a brutal counter-insurgency battle happening right across the border from a hostile China. There is no version of events that ends with a US victory. Sure, Kim's regime would collapse, but good luck figuring out what to do next.

Step 6). Notice I haven't mentioned nukes yet. Because this is where it gets really bad. First things first, we won't kill Kim. The Northerners would quickly spirit him into some rural bunker, and they'd move him around through tunnels as needed. These people learned their harsh lessons from the last war about what American air power can do. Once we use a nuke, though, Kim will decide to go down in a blaze of glory. He'll launch back at us. And we don't know how many missiles we can take out. We can't destroy his strike capability as I said above, because he launches from trucks. I don't think any long range missile with reach the US mainland, but Asia and the Pacific are vulnerable. A lot of people are gonna die there.

Step 7). I think everyone here knows just how little Kim cares about NorK civilians. They're his victims, not his people. Everyone important will be hidden in bunkers. Everyone else can die. You're not shooting the bad guy. You're just shooting his hostages so he doesn't have to.

Really, the best option is the same one we used during the Cold War. Keep the peace and wait for communism to kill the enemy so we don't have to.

You have a point about Kim Jong Un's priorities. I just feel like North Korea is getting stronger at such a rate that we will be nuked before they can collapse.

As for your points on the Korean War, perhaps if we change our tactical approach it could work. We are much stronger now than we were in the 1950s, and North Korea will probably not be funded by China (and will CERTAINLY NOT be funded by Russia) Going in is the easy part, the hard part is leaving, which is a bridge that can be crossed later. And Step 5 would definitely work if we got the Russians on our side (which could be done through a compromise in Ukraine)

And you said there would be insurgencies: I find that hard to believe. It's not like Afghanistan. I doubt North Koreans would reject the prosperity that the United States could offer. There's a strong difference between North Korea and the Middle East, and an even greater difference between Communism and Islamism.
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Re: How to handle North Korea?

Post by ceaserkhan22 on Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:13 am

Rocket man probably knows that Gaddafi got rid of his WMD's and still got taken out, so sees that his only option to stay in power is through his own military might. His days are numbered if he continues, NK's last missile test proves they have the capacity to hit U.S. population centers. Appeasement is never the answer with his type, one american death on U.S. soil by Rocket man's hands and it will be over for North Korea.
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Re: How to handle North Korea?

Post by Kim Jong-un on Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:06 pm

The child running or county wouldn't understand this, but no amount of threats and angry tweets will convince Kim to give up the one thing that's kept him alive thus far. The best option we have right now is to give Kim what he wants. All he really wants is peace; maintain the peace and he stays in power, but start a war and he's the first to die. He will NOT wage war except to defend himself from invasion, and he's not going to nuke us while peace is still an option. We need to accept the fact that he can nuke us if threatened, because like it or not he does have a credible nuclear deterrent. Bottom line: military action against North Korea is not a viable option.
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Re: How to handle North Korea?

Post by ceaserkhan22 on Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:11 pm

“I will surely and definitely tame the mentally deranged US dotard with fire.”-Kim, yea sure sounds a lot like a guy that really only wants peace. Appeasement by the last few presidents is what let Rocket man get the bomb. Chamberlain had a similar approach to Hitler, see how that turned out. I don't agree with a lot of ^"or"^ president's policies, but at least he understands how to lead with strength unlike more recent administrations.
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Re: How to handle North Korea?

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