Justinians Dream

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Justinians Dream

Post by Brusilov on Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:51 am


It is the year 1453, the muslim invasions of the 630s all failed and the turks didn't manage to break through the persians in the east. The eastern roman empire stood strong in the east and held a firm grip around it's subjects. Constantine XI of the house Palaiologos decided to finally fulfill Justinians dream and reconquer all the roman territory which was lost during the 3rd century.
France is broken up into different duchies, while the English are advancing further and further into french lands.
The mongols were not able to penetrate the persian defences in the 13th century but still managed to subjugate the russian pricipalities. But now, the house of Rurikovich destroyed the mongol opressors and broke free from their chains.
Denmark had, due to the catholics waging crusades against the orthodox romans, enough time to establish an empire in scandinavia.
The holy roman empire is one of the only alliances which was able to withstand the roman invaders.



I hope you, the people on this Forum like my scenario idea and maybe we could expand on this specific scenario a little if you're interested.
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Re: Justinians Dream

Post by Ruthenian_Fish on Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:44 am

Wouldn't Toulousse actually be called Occitania? Anyways this seems like an unlikely but interesting scenario that could've played out had luck historically favored the Byzantines.

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Re: Justinians Dream

Post by Brusilov on Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:48 am

Ruthenian_Fish wrote:Wouldn't Toulousse actually be called Occitania? Anyways this seems like an unlikely but interesting scenario that could've played out had luck historically favored the Byzantines.

Yeah I know, but that's why it's an alternate scenario Very Happy
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Re: Justinians Dream

Post by Sol Invictus XVI on Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:58 am

One thing to consider is Eastern Europe might be changed drastically by no muslims conquering the middle east. The Teutonic Order that invaded Prussia on the request of Polish originally might not have existed because the Teutonic Order was originally born of the Crusades. Indeed the Baltic Crusades might have been much longer and more piecemeal than they were in our timeline because the Baltic Crusades were an extension of the big Crusades in the middle east. The fervor that was born out of the Crusades wouldn't have existed so the big Crusader pushes into pagan Prussia and Lithuania wouldn't have happened. Most likely the Polish would have had smaller Crusades against the pagan Prussian tribes but Lithuania would have been Poland's biggest obstacle to conquest of the region
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Re: Justinians Dream

Post by Brusilov on Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:01 am

Sol Invictus XVI wrote:One thing to consider is Eastern Europe might be changed drastically by no muslims conquering the middle east. The Teutonic Order that invaded Prussia on the request of Polish originally might not have existed because the Teutonic Order was originally born of the Crusades. Indeed the Baltic Crusades might have been much longer and more piecemeal than they were in our timeline because the Baltic Crusades were an extension of the big Crusades in the middle east. The fervor that was born out of the Crusades wouldn't have existed so the big Crusader pushes into pagan Prussia and Lithuania wouldn't have happened. Most likely the Polish would have had smaller Crusades against the pagan Prussian tribes but Lithuania would have been Poland's biggest obstacle to conquest of the region
Well yeah you're correct.
Thanks for pointing that out. I'll try to improve my scenarios in the future. Very Happy
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Re: Justinians Dream

Post by Nachos81 on Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:16 pm

Nice map
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Re: Justinians Dream

Post by Brusilov on Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:17 pm

Nachos81 wrote:Nice map
thanks
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Re: Justinians Dream

Post by JustJason on Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:59 pm

Very nice, i do find it rather odd, however, that you based middle eastern borders off of present day one as it certainly doesn't fit the times.
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Re: Justinians Dream

Post by Brusilov on Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:38 pm

JustJason wrote:Very nice, i do find it rather odd, however, that you based middle eastern borders off of present day one as it certainly doesn't fit the times.
I did that because I used a modern map of Europe.
I'm going to make more maps in the future and try to make the map more realistic
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Re: Justinians Dream

Post by Mr Trolldemort on Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:56 pm

Interesting map combining the early Byzantine expansion with early modern Europe. However, wouldn't the Holy Roman empire not exist with Rome under Byzantine influence? Of course a German empire would start appearing by this time but wouldn't be called something like East Francia or something like that?
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Re: Justinians Dream

Post by Brusilov on Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:25 am

Mr Trolldemort wrote:Interesting map combining the early Byzantine expansion with early modern Europe.  However, wouldn't the Holy Roman empire not exist with Rome under Byzantine influence?  Of course a German empire would start appearing by this time but wouldn't be called something like East Francia or something like that?
You're right but I stuck with the name so that people wouldn't get confused.
Also, I think the HRE would still happen. Due to the fact, that the Imperium Romanum is an orthodox empire but central and western europe are catholic.
Since the romans (byzantines) seek to conquer any lost lands, they are seen as heretical invaders which is why the germans still proclaim themselves as roman as a kind of replacement for the "heretical" orthodox one.
In the world I have created the hostilities between orthodox christians and catholics are extremely high. Even higher than between the arabs and europeans.
The catholic kingdoms would wage constant crusades against the orthodox "infidel"


Last edited by Brusilov on Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Justinians Dream

Post by Leon the Napoleon on Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:37 am

Why is it so they control Rome? It is even in the name Imperium ROMANUM. I don't think the capital would stay in Constantinople. The only reasons they moved the capital was to deal with the eastern threats(Persians, Huns etc.) and because of the Schism(of the empire not the churches).
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Re: Justinians Dream

Post by Mr Trolldemort on Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:55 am

Leon the Napoleon wrote:Why is it so they control Rome? It is even in the name Imperium ROMANUM. I don't think the capital would stay in Constantinople. The only reasons they moved the capital was to deal with the eastern threats(Persians, Huns etc.) and because of the Schism(of the empire not the churches).

At this point, in our timeline Rome was hardly the metropolis it once was in the early era of the Empire. Near the fall of the western Roman Empire, they even switched the capital to Ravenna because it was larger and better fortified. Rome wouldn't regain it's previous status as a large city until the Renaissance.

While some people in the Byzantine empire would surely wish to change the capital back to Rome, there was little incentive to do it. Constantinople was an extremely large and prosperous city and was strategically important for both trade and war by blocking the gateway between Europe and Asia. In addition, Latin was no longer spoken by the emperors in Constantinople and used Greek, which would create confusion and tensions with the pope and the general population moving to Rome and having to either learn a new language or to stick with Greek and make it seem less like a restoration and more like a occupation. Why switch your capital from such a large city to a much smaller one?
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Re: Justinians Dream

Post by Brusilov on Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:29 pm

Constantinople, City of Constantine, the everlasting city.
Mr Trolldemort is right, Rome was but a shadow of its former self.
Besides, the byzantines called themselves romans and their empire was called the Imperium Romanum already (Empire of the Romans) until 1453 when the turks conquered it.
There was no need for a new capital. New seat of a patricarch, definately, but not capital.
Also, Rome is owned by the principality of Latium, so I'm in the right no matter what Wink
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