Alexander, a Greek or a Macedon

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Alexander, a Greek or a Macedon

Post by Zedphyr on Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:20 pm

I know this thread REALLY won't work out well but I just want to see a respectful discussion of the topic
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Re: Alexander, a Greek or a Macedon

Post by Constantine Palaiologos on Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:41 pm

He was definately not a greek lol, at the time when he rose to power, Macedonians were considered by the Greeks as barbarians

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Re: Alexander, a Greek or a Macedon

Post by Big_Appa on Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:48 pm

I would say he embraced Greek culture but was fundamentally Macedonian.
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Re: Alexander, a Greek or a Macedon

Post by tehcowgoesmo0123 on Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:09 pm

He was ancient Macedonian. He was not a Greek; the Greeks disliked the Macedonians and thought of them as uncivilized. He was also not a modern Macedonian, as modern Macedonians are South Slavs. The arguments between Greece and Macedonia over whether he was Greek or Macedonian is stupid; neither country can claim that Alexander had their own culture since Ancient Macedon had its own unique culture that no longer exists.
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Re: Alexander, a Greek or a Macedon

Post by Crazy Boris on Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:42 pm

tehcowgoesmo0123 wrote:He was ancient Macedonian. He was not a Greek; the Greeks disliked the Macedonians and thought of them as uncivilized. He was also not a modern Macedonian, as modern Macedonians are South Slavs. The arguments between Greece and Macedonia over whether he was Greek or Macedonian is stupid; neither country can claim that Alexander had their own culture since Ancient Macedon had its own unique culture that no longer exists.

^This. Pretty much spot on. However, it should be noted that the Macedonians did share similarities with the Greeks, hence why the era of Alexander and the Diadochi is called "Hellenistic".
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Re: Alexander, a Greek or a Macedon

Post by ceaserkhan22 on Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:44 am

According to Herodotus the Macedonian royal family were dorians that came from Argos. The dorians are considered one of the 4 tribes of the greek people along with the Aeolians, Achaeans, and Ionians. It is still debated how much of this origin story is myth and how much is history however.

Herodotus:
"From Argos fled to the Illyrians three brothers of the descendants of Temenus, Gauanes, Aeropus, and Perdiccas; and passing over from the Illyrians into the upper parts of Macedonia they came to the city of Lebaia...Now that these descendants of Perdiccas are Greeks, as they themselves say, I myself chance to know and will prove it in the later part of my history."
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Re: Alexander, a Greek or a Macedon

Post by EmperorTigerstar on Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:18 am

Alexander is Macedonian. Back then Greek only existed in terms of broad culture and a language group. Sparta and Athens certainly weren't the same back then.
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Re: Alexander, a Greek or a Macedon

Post by DavidlVofGeorgia on Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:53 pm

Alexander's lineage is not important. He was tutored by Aristotle while his father was off uniting Greece. All his achievements are Greek achievements.

Sidenote: After Phillip ll of Macedon united Greece (minus Sparta) Greeks first started to think of themselves as Greek.
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Re: Alexander, a Greek or a Macedon

Post by fischyk on Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:19 am

I understand that Greeks view him as a uniter, but that does not mean he is Greek. The Mongols united the Russians, didn't they? He is Macedonian, as the South Slavic population probably merged with the older Macedonians.
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Re: Alexander, a Greek or a Macedon

Post by EmperorTigerstar on Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:35 am

DavidlVofGeorgia wrote:while his father was off uniting Greece.

You mean conquering as a foreign invader. Also, he didn't conquer all of it, most notably Sparta.
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Re: Alexander, a Greek or a Macedon

Post by Adolf Francolini on Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:30 pm

He was historically Macedonian, but with the caveat that it is important to note that there are large ethnic and cultural differences between historical and modern Macedonians.
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Re: Alexander, a Greek or a Macedon

Post by Leon the Napoleon on Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:10 am

The Slavs didn't appear in eastern till the 6th century. How can any South Slav consider himself related to someone so distant to him? Also, while I haveit fresh from school, When Alexander united Greece he considered himself also Greek and not a foreign ruler. If you say that Greeks though the people living north of them barbarians, well what a surprise they did this for everyone outside ther borders, like the Romans and Persians. But hey, you say, didn't the Athenians and Spartans know about them being greek and stuff(add silly voice here).
Well as someone stated above the 4 greek tribes that descended from the north and Alexander was one of those.
I also heard state above that south Slavs mixed with the Macedonians.
Rolling Eyes
Due to Alexander the Macedonians mixed with people from Africa and Asia in the lands he conquered but they don't come out and say we are the descendants of Alexander.
There is even a tablet which Alexander wrote abbout their campaign against the Persians:
All Greeks except the Lacedaemonians(Spartans)(Wildly free translation)
He said that because they didn't participate which shows he thought himself as Greek.
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Re: Alexander, a Greek or a Macedon

Post by Kim Jong-un on Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:28 pm

Alexander the Great was ethnically and culturally a Macedonian; he came from a long line of Macedonian kings.

That said, he knew that the best way to coax the Greeks into accepting his rule was to assimilate himself to Greek culture and attempt to fit into Greek society. The Greeks were a very freedom-loving people and there was nothing they resented more than to be ruled by a foreign power, so their Macedonian rulers took care to portray themselves as liberators, peacemakers, and guardians of Greek culture rather than as foreign conquerors.
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Re: Alexander, a Greek or a Macedon

Post by ceaserkhan22 on Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:42 pm

By Macedonian are talking about the ethnic macedonians of today who are slavs that weren't in the region till some 900 years or so after Alexander the Great? Macedonians were described by Herodotus as greeks coming from Argos.
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Re: Alexander, a Greek or a Macedon

Post by Kim Jong-un on Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:39 am

ceaserkhan22 wrote:By Macedonian are talking about the ethnic macedonians of today who are slavs that weren't in the region till some 900 years or so after Alexander the Great? Macedonians were described by Herodotus as greeks coming from Argos.

Good question; the latter answer is correct. The Macedonians of classical antiquity are not to be confused with the largely Slavic nationals of the modern Republic of Macedonia. The only thing they have in common is the land they happen to occupy.

FYI, this distinction is pretty much the basis for the ongoing naming dispute between the Republic of Macedonia and the Hellenic Republic.
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Re: Alexander, a Greek or a Macedon

Post by Lord Yavimaya on Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:05 am

The Macedonian argument makes no sense to me.
The FYROM is not even in the location that ancient Macedonia was in. They aren't even in the same language group. He was a Greek. He studied and was obsessed with Greek culture. The Macedonians had always been influenced by the Greeks, really.
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Re: Alexander, a Greek or a Macedon

Post by Kim Jong-un on Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:31 am

Lord Yavimaya wrote:The Macedonian argument makes no sense to me.
The FYROM is not even in the location that ancient Macedonia was in. They aren't even in the same language group. He was a Greek. He studied and was obsessed with Greek culture. The Macedonians had always been influenced by the Greeks, really.

While it is true that Alexander got a Greek education and was heavily influenced by Greek culture, it is erroneous to discount his Macedonian ethnicity and nationality just because he bears no relation to the modern South-Slavic Macedonians. As I said, the two types of Macedonians should not be confused.

At least from a technical and genealogical perspective, Alexander was most definitely a Macedonian. After all, he didn't inherit the throne of Macedon because he was Greek.
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Re: Alexander, a Greek or a Macedon

Post by ceaserkhan22 on Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:41 am

Alexander was not "slavic" Macedonian, but the ancient Macedonian royal family was originally from Argos, which was greek. So Alexander was definitely not slavic, but was at least probably ethnically greek.
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