Stance on Israel/Palestine?

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Where should the borders between Israel and Palestine be drawn?

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Total Votes : 34

Re: Stance on Israel/Palestine?

Post by Thorfinn Karlsefni on Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:50 am

If you can successfully create one nation out of Palestinians and Jews, then there is no point to nation-states at all. Their last point of shared nationality ended with the son of the handmaid being driven out 4,000 years ago. Imagine if the United States had a civil war for 4,000 years and wound up following completely different religions, speaking different languages and with one side having no concept of women's rights and the other having full equality between the sexes.... Can the country be forced back together?
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Re: Stance on Israel/Palestine?

Post by Max Hess on Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:28 pm

I have a perfect solution to this problem (By perfect I mean theoretically perfect, not necessarily a probable outcome):
Just do what Bosnia did.

The Bosnian Civil War ended with a peace accord called the Dayton Agreement, which led to the enactment of a constitution unlike any other in the world today. It affirmed the right of self-rule for the Republica Srpska, the partially-recognized state which had been fighting a pan-Serbian irredentist war against the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and guaranteed equal representation in the government for the Serb, Croat, and Bosniak communities by explicitly reserving one third of the seats in every branch of government for the representatives of each community. If we followed the same model and created a federal structure that affirmed the sovereignty of the State of Israel and of that of the state of Palestine and guaranteed Jews and Arabs equal representation in the federal government, this conflict might yet be resolved.
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Re: Stance on Israel/Palestine?

Post by Thorfinn Karlsefni on Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:54 pm

Max Hess wrote:...The Bosnian Civil War ended with a peace accord called the Dayton Agreement, which led to the enactment of a constitution unlike any other in the world today. It affirmed the right of self-rule for the Republica Srpska, the partially-recognized state which had been fighting a pan-Serbian irredentist war against the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and guaranteed equal representation in the government for the Serb, Croat, and Bosniak communities by explicitly reserving one third of the seats in every branch of government for the representatives of each community. If we followed the same model and created a federal structure that affirmed the sovereignty of the State of Israel and of that of the state of Palestine and guaranteed Jews and Arabs equal representation in the federal government, this conflict might yet be resolved.

Very interesting... I like reading all this kind of philosophical thought. It gives me hope... maybe we're not so far removed from Plato and Socrates and Aristotle after all...

I have some specific questions:

1) Unalienable Human Rights: How are they to be defined under such a constitution? Will the Jewish concept of rights be applied to Jews and the Palestinian concept of rights be applied to Palestinians? Such a solution would result in some ID checking by police... Jewish women enjoy equal status with men, and have no restrictions on how they're allowed to dress and act in public. Palestinian women... not so much. Whose laws govern public behavior? How about drinking alcohol? (Alcohol is theoretically illegal for practicing Muslims.) How about converting to a different religion? (Again, illegal in most of the Muslim world.)

2) Popular representation: If both sides have equal representation, how do you not wind up disenfranchising Israelis? Currently there are about 8.3 million people in Israel, 2.75 million people in the West Bank and 1.8 million in Gaza. I guess if you break it down by Jewish and Muslim the totals are a little closer. 6 million Jews live in Israel, and another 0.6 million live in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, for a grand total of about 6.6 million in the combined area of Israel and Palestine. About 1.4 million Arab Muslims are Israeli citizens, almost all of the 1.8 million people in Gaza are Muslim, and of the 2.75 million people in the West Bank about 2.3 million are Muslim. Thus, the combined total of Muslims would be about 5.5 million. (There are quite a number of Druze and Arab Christians and "other" according to the CIA's World Fact Book, which is where I got all these numbers.)

3) How about the Sunni/Shia breakdown? How do you get those two groups to accept living together in peace? They've been in a sort of civil war now for some years, with the Shia controling Gaza and the Sunnis controlling the West Bank even though all are theoretically under Israeli occupation.
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