Democracy Thread

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Democracy Thread

Post by NearWolf58 on Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:13 am

There are threads for communism and fascism, so it's about time we discuss democracy. We will discuss all forms of it and its pros and cons.
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Re: Democracy Thread

Post by DavidlVofGeorgia on Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:21 pm

Democracy is an outlet for a public revolt. Even if democracy is destroyed in favor of another form of government, that government still must remain popular among the people lest they be overthrown a la social contract.

Thus, a popular totalitarian government is no different than the people electing a dictator which is still technically democracy. For example, if Kim Jun Um ran for a legitimate election this year he would win because his people are so brainwashed.

Democracy is not, however, a morality unto itself. It just ensures stability when the public turns against their head of state.
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Re: Democracy Thread

Post by Mr Trolldemort on Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:31 pm

Thanks for reviving this thread, David. This is an interesting topic that I didn't notice until now.

I think Democracy is a double edged sword. It does help with stability and compromise, but it relies heavily on the average person. If they are rational, practical and focus on whats good for the country over solely ideological reasons, it is a great system for electing great leaders. This usually happens in times of crisis. That is why some of the greatest US presidents in my opinion (Lincoln, Washington, FDR) were elected in times of crises where the whole country was in peril.

However, when people start acting less on facts and more on fear or hatred, and refuse to compromise or reason with evidence, it starts to falter, and people will capitalize on this and use rhetoric to appear strong to gain power for themselves and end up fracturing the country and society. That is exactly what happened in Ancient Athens under a man called Alcibiades during the Peloponnesian war and how dictators appear so easily in fragile democracies. That is why Democracy for many people was widely discredited until the late 18th century.

So in conclusion, democracies can work well, but it really depends on the circumstances and the population. It reminds me of a quote from Uncle Ben "With great power, comes great responsibility". If people don't use their power well, it will cause more chaos than any other system.
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Re: Democracy Thread

Post by DavidlVofGeorgia on Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:35 am

Totally agree, Trolldemort. In a democracy, people get the politicians they deserve.

That isn't to say democracy can't be improved. I would like to see Single-Transferable Vote, term limits for Congress, and universal voter ID cards.
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Re: Democracy Thread

Post by Cold War Communist on Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:26 am

I stand beside the founding fathers of the United States in the belief that "the mob" cannot be trusted any more than the politicians they put in power. There needs to be a system to maintain balance, or there will be a tyranny.
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Re: Democracy Thread

Post by Khortain on Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:43 am

I think I tend to agree. I have a good quote that I think comes from Thomas Jefferson "An educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people." Democracy really works best with an educated public that knows what it wants and knows how to elect competent people. The opposite of an educated democracy is mob rule where democracy essentially turns into a popularity contest where the "Coolest" candidate wins instead of the one with the best plan for the nation. This is kind of why even with all its flaws I do support the electoral college system in America. Just in case if things were to ever turn really bad the electoral college could over rule the population if they make a really bad choice.
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Re: Democracy Thread

Post by Mr Trolldemort on Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:04 pm

Khortain wrote:I think I tend to agree. I have a good quote that I think comes from Thomas Jefferson "An educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people." Democracy really works best with an educated public that knows what it wants and knows how to elect competent people. The opposite of an educated democracy is mob rule where democracy essentially turns into a popularity contest where the "Coolest" candidate wins instead of the one with the best plan for the nation. This is kind of why even with all its flaws I do support the electoral college system in America. Just in case if things were to ever turn really bad the electoral college could over rule the population if they make a really bad choice.

I personally despise the electoral college system. The issue with that is that it can either help a bad choice actually go in (Excluding the 2016 election, it got George W. Bush elected over Al Gore, and while its debatable how good he would be, Bush was a pretty bad choice as well). The other problem is they hardly change sides to what the state went for, which kind of ruins the point of even having it except messing with the margin of victory. What's more, it was meant to let in the elite weigh in on the choices in order to ensure someone they preferred got elected. While this sounds good on paper, the people who are the richest and most powerful aren't always the ones who make the best choices and someone who actually has a good set of ideas for the country and that the majority of the public agrees with could be shot down just from the electoral college because it would not benefit a really small group of people, which would turn a democracy into an oligarchy of the rich, and that is a pretty terrible system. I would go on and explain what my solutions for improvements could be for a democracy to reduce some of the problems, but I'll do that another day because this is a very long paragraph lol.
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Re: Democracy Thread

Post by Cold War Communist on Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:28 pm

The "oligarchy of the rich" doesn't owe itself to the electoral college. It owes itself to a very, very entrenched class system and the peculiarities of running a campaign. You need dumptrucks of money and free time to pull it off, this I know in part from experience and in part academia.

Point being, the oligarchy can be solved with term limits, but it's going to be worse without any type of check and balance against the people. We tend to forget that they are part of the system despite not having a "branch" in government.
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Re: Democracy Thread

Post by Lord Yavimaya on Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:12 pm

I don't understand how people become so brainwashed in a democracy. Do they just not listen to the "enemy" even if the "enemy" uses facts and logic? Do people act as if ideology is a cult or religion, something that you teach to your children? Because if I go on places like Tumblr and everyone there thinks the entire Right wing are fucking Nazis and the centrists are Nazi-sympathizers. If anyone understands how people become such partisans, please let me know.
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Re: Democracy Thread

Post by DavidlVofGeorgia on Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:02 pm

People have different morals. We can't come together until our enemy isn't immoral. Atheism differ widely on morals. Christian Expansionism is the only way to establish a common morality.
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Re: Democracy Thread

Post by CptCrape on Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:59 am

Democracy is good for decision making, but bad at maintaining peace. Outside of the west, Democracy is rife with corruption.
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Re: Democracy Thread

Post by Lord Yavimaya on Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:05 pm

DavidlVofGeorgia wrote:People have different morals. We can't come together until our enemy isn't immoral. Atheism differ widely on morals. Christian Expansionism is the only way to establish a common morality.
Maybe people can me moral without Christianity? It seems overly Imperialistic to use morality as an excuse to spread your religion.
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Re: Democracy Thread

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