Who the Hell Were the "Sea People"?

No, seriously.  Who were they?  So around the time of the Bronze Age Collapse, when basically the entire Western World (Egypt, Greece, and the Hitties) of the era literally fell into pieces after nearly 1,000 years of otherwise stable existence, a strange confederation of disasters began to enter the minds of Mediterranean scribes.  But this wasn't the typical  "holy shit, the mountain is on fire", or the "war is bad", or even the "I think the fertility gods just cursed our fields".  This was a universal, common enemy that wreacked havoc along the shores of all the major civilizations for....why?  Nobody knows.  They came, they saw, the kicked some asses, and that's it.   There's no signs of invasion, or migration, or repopulation, or anything.  But the asses they kicked were kicked out of existence, and they didn't even take the shit they left behind.  There's virtually no understandable reasons for the wars they waged, or the world they ended.  It's one of the greatest mysteries of history, and one still unsolved to this very day.  And there's good cause why.

There's no information on them.  Nothing survived their imposed apocalypse unless it was blessed, afterall, and even those hints can be of no help.  Every time the "Sea People" come up, the Ancients basically assume that everyone knows exactly what they're talking about, and provide no context.   So our sources are limited to "The Sea People have done evil at Pephos today", or "Fear not, Egypt will fight the Sea People where others have failed", or "I ask you all to beware the Sea People".  When the "Sea People" are depicted, it's with round shields and horns, and little spiky feather hats.  Sometimes we're given the benefit of a specific tribe being named, like Sherden, Shekelesh, or Teresh.  But names and pictures is where it ends.  It seems even people at the time didn't know what they were fighting against.

And to make it even weirder, after the Sea People finished up with their little "destroy civilization as we know it" shtik, they straight up disappeared.  No further references, no records in history, not a thing.  So...who?  What?

Actually Egypt survived whereas everyone else collapsed. The pharaoh of Egypt fought the Sea People in a dual battle on land and sea and was victorious. Hence many believe that the Philistines are the survivors of that battle.

Interesting question. I actually have no idea so I won't vote yet. I look forward to seeing what other people have to say and what evidence they have.

They were Humans with Sci-fi technology and society.

321gman wrote:Actually Egypt survived whereas everyone else collapsed. The pharaoh of Egypt fought the Sea People in a dual battle on land and sea and was victorious. Hence many believe that the Philistines are the survivors of that battle.

Egypt did survive against them, yes, but only temporarily. Shortly after the collapse it was reduced to political turmoil, and eventually taken over by the Assyrians while it was still recovering. Long term effects, but effects nonetheless. But yes, the Sea People didn't completely destroy Egypt, that's a fair point. I guess that's why most of the records we have of them are Egyptian.

It seems most likely to me they were a coalition of primarily Mycenaean Greeks along with allied/vassal peoples (Sherden, Shekelesh etc) who had comprised a large trade empire during the Late Bronze Age. Since generated income from trade permits population growth well beyond what the local land can support, and since they'd been successfully trading around the Mediterranean for hundreds of years allowing their population to swell, they would probably be among the hardest hit during the onset of famine causing a reduction or even complete halt in international commerce.

With a sudden overpopulation of people no longer supported by trade, access to perhaps the best/largest fleet at the time and knowing their continental rivals were also weakened by famine and the resultant conflicts, it's not unreasonable to assume they decided to band together and attack in force in a desperate attempt to conquer farmlands before they starved to death.

GeorgeIVofBritannia wrote:They were Humans with Sci-fi technology and society.

Obviously everyone knows they were the space martians that came and destroyed the Atlantians.
Wake up sheeple!

Coeus wrote:It seems most likely to me they were a coalition of primarily Mycenaean Greeks along with allied/vassal peoples (Sherden, Shekelesh etc) who had comprised a large trade empire during the Late Bronze Age. Since generated income from trade permits population growth well beyond what the local land can support, and since they'd been successfully trading around the Mediterranean for hundreds of years allowing their population to swell, they would probably be among the hardest hit during the onset of famine causing a reduction or even complete halt in international commerce.

With a sudden overpopulation of people no longer supported by trade, access to perhaps the best/largest fleet at the time and knowing their continental rivals were also weakened by famine and the resultant conflicts, it's not unreasonable to assume they decided to band together and attack in force in a desperate attempt to conquer farmlands before they starved to death.

But you also have to remember that the Mycenaeans themselves also collapsed do to invasion from the north, most likely from the Dorians (which was the group that Sparta came out of) so for it to be the Mycenaeans when they themselves were destroyed is kinda tricky.

iCod wrote:

GeorgeIVofBritannia wrote:They were Humans with Sci-fi technology and society.

Obviously everyone knows they were the space martians that came and destroyed the Atlantians.
Wake up sheeple!

Wake up the Atlantians were space martians.

I lean towards the Italic theory personally, since there is some similarity between the artifacts of the Sea People and those of the Nuragic people of Sardinia.

And speaking of the Philistines, I'm fairly certain the Philistines were descendants of the Sea Peoples who settled in Philistia after the Egyptians beat them. An Egyptian name for one of the Sea People tribes was "Peleset", which may be linked to Philistine and the modern word Palestine.

321gman wrote:But you also have to remember that the Mycenaeans themselves also collapsed do to invasion from the north, most likely from the Dorians (which was the group that Sparta came out of) so for it to be the Mycenaeans when they themselves were destroyed is kinda tricky.

Not necessarily. We do not know the exact dating of the Dorian invasion, only that it happened around the same time as the sea peoples invasions. It is very likely that these two are connected.

If it was the Mycenaeans rallying their warriors and convincing/forcing the island nations in their trade empire to do the same for an invasion of the richer lands around the Mediterranean, it could have prompted their Dorian neighbours to invade, knowing the defence of the Greek mainland would be weakened. Mycenaean losses of men and ships at Egypt would have further diminished their ability to fight back the Dorians.

Alternatively the Dorian invasion (themselves migrating southwards possibly due to the same famine which seemed to have plagued everyone else at this time) could have been the final straw in the Mycenaeans deciding to conquer, and migrate to, other lands.

Whatever it was, I don't think the Sea Peoples invasions could have occurred after the Mycenaeans had been annihilated. Who else would have the influence and connections to convince a bunch of islands scattered across the Mediterranean to join in on an invasion of old Mycenaean rival empires?

Coeus wrote:

321gman wrote:But you also have to remember that the Mycenaeans themselves also collapsed do to invasion from the north, most likely from the Dorians (which was the group that Sparta came out of) so for it to be the Mycenaeans when they themselves were destroyed is kinda tricky.

Not necessarily. We do not know the exact dating of the Dorian invasion, only that it happened around the same time as the sea peoples invasions. It is very likely that these two are connected.

If it was the Mycenaeans rallying their warriors and convincing/forcing the island nations in their trade empire to do the same for an invasion of the richer lands around the Mediterranean, it could have prompted their Dorian neighbours to invade, knowing the defence of the Greek mainland would be weakened. Mycenaean losses of men and ships at Egypt would have further diminished their ability to fight back the Dorians.

Alternatively the Dorian invasion (themselves migrating southwards possibly due to the same famine which seemed to have plagued everyone else at this time) could have been the final straw in the Mycenaeans deciding to conquer, and migrate to, other lands.

Whatever it was, I don't think the Sea Peoples invasions could have occurred after the Mycenaeans had been annihilated. Who else would have the influence and connections to convince a bunch of islands scattered across the Mediterranean to join in on an invasion of old Mycenaean rival empires?

I might be more inclined to lean with the 2nd idea, or it could've been that the Mycenaeans attacked first, and then when everyone in the north was weakened, the invading tribes attacked, destroying the Mycenaeans, Hittites, and Mitanni. But the Egyptians, who would've, probly stayed out of any war like that, remained strong enough to withstand them and therefore survived.

What a coincidence! A nice video came out today on that!

Coeus wrote:it's not unreasonable to assume they decided to band together and attack in force in a desperate attempt to conquer farmlands before they starved to death.

That is actually pretty reasonable. If the Philistines are considered descendants of the sea people, then it would make sense as the Philistines occupied parts of Canaan which is a fertile land to some extent.

Considering how fragmented sea people groups were, I think they're probably a bunch of salty unpaid mercenaries who got together and started killing people.

Constantine Palaiologos wrote:Considering how fragmented sea people groups were, I think they're probably a bunch of salty unpaid mercenaries who got together and started killing people.

But what would their motive have been to cause that much destruction on such a scale. Being salty and unemployed can only get you so far.

ItsAGiraffe wrote:

321gman wrote:Actually Egypt survived whereas everyone else collapsed. The pharaoh of Egypt fought the Sea People in a dual battle on land and sea and was victorious. Hence many believe that the Philistines are the survivors of that battle.

Egypt did survive against them, yes, but only temporarily.  Shortly after the collapse it was reduced to political turmoil, and eventually taken over by the Assyrians while it was still recovering.  Long term effects, but effects nonetheless.  But yes, the Sea People didn't completely destroy Egypt, that's a fair point.  I guess that's why most of the records we have of them are Egyptian.

Whoa there, there was 400 - 500 years between the bronze age collapse and Assyria's conquest of Egypt.

EmperorTigerstar wrote:

ItsAGiraffe wrote:

321gman wrote:Actually Egypt survived whereas everyone else collapsed. The pharaoh of Egypt fought the Sea People in a dual battle on land and sea and was victorious. Hence many believe that the Philistines are the survivors of that battle.

Egypt did survive against them, yes, but only temporarily.  Shortly after the collapse it was reduced to political turmoil, and eventually taken over by the Assyrians while it was still recovering.  Long term effects, but effects nonetheless.  But yes, the Sea People didn't completely destroy Egypt, that's a fair point.  I guess that's why most of the records we have of them are Egyptian.

Whoa there, there was 400 - 500 years between the bronze age collapse and Assyria's conquest of Egypt.

Oh, no, I'm aware. But in those 400 to 500 years, there was no centralized control in most of what was Egypt. At least, that's what I'd read. Only a sort of internal power struggle between various dynasties and cult priests. Feel free to point out if I'm wrong.

JOHN CENA

JustJason wrote:JOHN CENA

John Seana

F35H wrote:

JustJason wrote:JOHN CENA

John Seana

clever