IQ Differences between peoples around the world (not racist!!!)

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IQ Differences between peoples around the world (not racist!!!)

Post by christian kern on Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:51 pm

I in no way believe that People should be treated differently based on race or ethnicity but i was wondering where These intelligent difference could be part of the reason why nations developed as they did in history or is it simply a result of history.

Sources:
https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country
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Re: IQ Differences between peoples around the world (not racist!!!)

Post by DavidlVofGeorgia on Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:18 pm

I just started read "Guns, Germs, and Steel" by Jared Diamond, professor of geography and physiology at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA), and it was written explicitly to address this concern.

In the end, Diamond puts the blame for IQ differentials not on race or genetics but on the availability of beasts of burden, climate, geography, and culture.

I also recommend "The Bell Curve" by psychologist Richard J. Herrnstein. He is more undecided and believes that it is a mixture of the environment and evolution which is our response to the environment.

Richard J. Herrnstein was immediately called a racists (even though he attacked racists in his book) and so he published "Coming Apart" which covers IQ differentials between rich and poor whites.
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Re: IQ Differences between peoples around the world (not racist!!!)

Post by Cold War Communist on Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:19 pm

Potential is difficult to realize in a poor environment (or an environment with different concerns and circumstances). You can put some of the best minds on Earth in history in Middle Africa today and they will fail to tap their potential.

The reverse could be true if you could take the right person from the wrong environment and give them opportunity. That is the explanation.
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Re: IQ Differences between peoples around the world (not racist!!!)

Post by Adolf Francolini on Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:29 am

DavidlVofGeorgia wrote:
I also recommend "The Bell Curve" by psychologist Richard J. Herrnstein.

Don't forget Murray, he was instrumental for the book as well.

What irks me about books like "Guns, Germs, and Steel" is that it talks about environmental differences as if they are completely separate from biological differences. As if random races were somehow just plopped all around the world randomly, and it just so happened that some populations got better environments and used those to advance technologically, and some didn't. I mean, if you're a young-earth creationist, you might believe this, but most people believe in evolution. It's important to consider that things like environment, culture, and biology are all intertwined. They influence each other over many years.

Note that different populations have evolved in vastly different environments over tens, even hundreds of thousands of years. While we can debate the extent of racial differences, it would be silly in my view to propose that no differences exist at all. The logic of the theory of evolution suggests that different environments necessarily create different pressures, so over time different average traits among races must have emerged.

A good example is seasonal variation and trust. Research has indicated that European and East Asian people seem to be more predisposed to form high-trust societies than their equatorial counterparts, and a lot of this can be explained through the lens of evolution. In the temperate or cold climates of Europe and Asia, some people had to always maintain a fire often for months on end, and if it went out, the tribe would be less likely to survive. Humid climates didn't have that much of a pressure for this. Therefore, people in the colder, seasonal climates had evolutionary pressures that led to them developing higher-trust societies.

But IQ is, of course, the subject which is most well-researched regarding race differences. So, if people doubt racial differences, this is the best topic to mention, since it has such an overwhelming scientific backing. Here is a series of articles which covers a lot of the finer points, and clearly cites reputable scientific studies. One that stands out is the Michigan Adoption series of studies. In the United States, whites have an average IQ of around 100, and blacks an average around 85 (Hispanics average 89, East Asians average 106, and Jews average 110. Mixed race between white-black average 92). Many people have believed in the past that things like racism or poverty can influence low IQ scores- so the researchers studied black, white, and mixed-race (white+black) children who were all adopted into well-off, stable white families, and measured their IQ later in life. But the IQ averages from the study ended up not being much different from children raised in their respective communities. And to top it off, other studies show that mixed-race children face more discrimination than just black children- yet, the mixed-race children's average IQ in the study corresponded to their national averages, at the early 90s IQ, a level significantly higher than the only-black IQ average. All this data combined, along with clear evolutionary-environmental explanations, indicate that IQ differences being biological is the best conclusion.

That isn't to say that environment cannot be separated from biology. Blacks and Hispanics do live in lower income areas on average, and this does potentially impact IQ. The majority of neuroscientists believe that IQ is somewhere between 40-70% genetic. So, perhaps part of the gap is explained by environment alone. However, when you have studies that correct for the environment so well, like the Minnesota Adoption studies, it currently looks like most of the gap is racial in nature.
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Re: IQ Differences between peoples around the world (not racist!!!)

Post by ceaserkhan22 on Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:19 am

Not surprised by the east asian countries on top, but thought Israel would've been higher. Just saying, east asians and jews at face value seem the most intelligent (coming from the perspective of a non-jew or east asian btw).
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