Geopolitically How Old is the U.S.A. compared to the rest of the world?

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Re: Geopolitically How Old is the U.S.A. compared to the rest of the world?

Post by Cold War Communist on Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:19 pm

I am operating with the understanding that this is about geopolitics, in which case the U.S. is virtually a child.

If we are talking straight up independent governments with pure, uninterrupted histories (including occupations of any kind), then the discussion is different.

There has not been a statement to clarify this issue. Hence, I am trying to discern how we are determining what defines the age of a country which is changing by the answer.
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Re: Geopolitically How Old is the U.S.A. compared to the rest of the world?

Post by ceaserkhan22 on Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:32 pm

Lord Yavimaya wrote:
Cold War Communist wrote:
ceaserkhan22 wrote:
Cold War Communist wrote:^^ That is the issue I am seeing with this theory. France has continually existed, even through German occupation, it was just administered differently.

Existed and independant are two different things. Tibet exists but its occupied by China, its not independant.

But existence is the only thing relevant to this topic, because we're discussing the age of nationstates relative to the U.S. Tibet is another good example of an ancient place that far outlives the U.S. in the realm of geopolitics..
Are we talking about Nationstates or just Governments? Because you can claim the ancient Greeks are the same people as the modern Greeks, so then Greece could be one of the oldest countries. We are talking about governments, specifically, unoccupied and independent governments. France has switched between Empire and Republic many times since the revolution, and then it was occupied by the Germans. Britain and the US have maintained a consistent government since Cromwell and the Constitution respectively.

We are talking about nation states. The German occupation of the greeks, as well as the earlier Ottoman occupation excludes it from this list. France changing governments does not exclude it from the list, but France under German occupation does exclude it. This list is about polity not culture.
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Re: Geopolitically How Old is the U.S.A. compared to the rest of the world?

Post by ceaserkhan22 on Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:46 pm

Cold War Communist wrote:I am operating with the understanding that this is about geopolitics, in which case the U.S. is virtually a child.

If we are talking straight up independent governments with pure, uninterrupted histories (including occupations of any kind), then the discussion is different.

There has not been a statement to clarify this issue. Hence, I am trying to discern how we are determining what defines the age of a country which is changing by the answer.

My definition is an independant polity that has not been conquered or ruled by a foreign or greater power from founding to present. That has been my personal definition this whole thread. The problem is that there are six countries that disputedly meet that criteria and only four that definitely do, so the reason it may seem to be changing by the answer is because the discussion itself is to define how geopolitically old a country is in comparison to the U.S.
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Re: Geopolitically How Old is the U.S.A. compared to the rest of the world?

Post by Crazy Boris on Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:17 pm

Out of the countries listed, I agree that Bhutan, Thailand, the UK and Oman count, and for the possible others I would count Sweden, since despite being part of Sweden-Norway, SweNor was basically just Sweden and happened to include Norway (capital in Stockholm, Swedish royalty, etc.), and China, I dunno, I would call the Yuan, Ming, Qing, and Yuan Shikai's Republic incarnations of China, but when the Warlord era comes around in the 1910s-20s, it gets kinda hard to say, since with both the KMT and Beiyang government, you could say that there were two seperate Chinas.
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Re: Geopolitically How Old is the U.S.A. compared to the rest of the world?

Post by ceaserkhan22 on Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:56 pm



Almost looks like this guy read our discussion
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Re: Geopolitically How Old is the U.S.A. compared to the rest of the world?

Post by Thorfinn Karlsefni on Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:22 am

I think a dramatic change in government, e.g., an absolute monarchy to a constitutional republic, indicates a sea change in the philosophical underpinnings of a nation-state. You can say Greece or China has been a country for thousands of years, but to really be "older" than the United States, a people really should have had a consistent form of government since before the ratification of the U.S. Constitution. The Founding Fathers studied the success and virtue of government types throughout human history, and then had a protracted public debate about it before settling on the exact type we still have 230 years on.

If simply being an identifiable people-group were adequate, I'd say the U.S. is ever-changing. The United States of America is more a set of ideas and ideals than a nation-state in the traditional sense.
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Re: Geopolitically How Old is the U.S.A. compared to the rest of the world?

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