The Alt Right

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Re: The Alt Right

Post by Adolf Francolini on Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:30 am

ceaserkhan22 wrote:That's kinda my point, liberalism and the alt right are over taking conservatism. I would say true conservativism  fundamentally believes in constitutional priciples, traditionally follows Judeo-Christian values, and typically has a love of country. Racial and gender equality are by no means anti-conservative as the bias media would have the masses believe. The leftist motto of being on the "right side of history" is only meant to ostrocize people that disagree with them. It's similar to how everyone who votes Republican is now all of a sudden labled a racist, sexist, xenophobic, homophobic, bigoted, Nazi. It's this insane culture of the left that seeks to end dialogue and creates an us vs them paradigm. I didn't vote Republican or Democrat in the 2016 presidential election because both sides have gone off the rails.

I can see what you mean. The thing is, with such a variable and non-specific meaning, it doesn't really have a 'nailed-down' ideology, so it is too flexible in my opinion. Constitutionalism is good but this is a value shared by most modern ideologies. Gender equality is by most measures against Christian or Jewish morality. Racial equality is a bit more wishy-washy, but we probably both agree that modern conservatism doesn't really adhere very strongly to Christian moral values. Its nationalistic tendencies place it consistently on the right wing, but the specifics are never solidified- conservatism exists in a strange middle ground where the goalposts can be moved by outside forces, and so when confronted with modern leftism, it crumples on specific issues and moves leftwards. Its only major achievement has ever been to be a moderating influence on the left.

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Re: The Alt Right

Post by ceaserkhan22 on Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:45 am

Actually I would say liberalism is much more variable and flexible than conservatism. Conservatism is guided by the Bible and the Constitution, so it is easy to nail down what conservative values are and where they come from. Liberalism on the other hand doesn't have sources of morality, for liberals morality is relative to the individual, so I would say that way of thinking is far more variable. That is why you see the ideological civil war among the left today. The more classical liberals are in large part anti-islam, since Islam is fundamentally against everything the the left stands for such as on women's rights and gay issues. On the other side you have the SJW types who call anyone who criticizes Islam a racist bigot. These two leftist ideologies contradict each other. Also I would disagree that gender equality is against Christian values. First wave feminism was spearheaded by Christian organisations such as the WCTU, which ultimately got women the right to vote and have full social equality. It was the later feminist waves that brought about the current state of man- hating feminism.

I would agree that the mainstream right has gradually been forced to the left. The Republican party is a progressive party now. However their are some strains that still hold firm to conservative values, but they are mainly shunned by today's group think army on the left. Now unfortunately the only right wingers people see in the media are the progressive mainstream right and the alt right, both of which have abondoned conservative values.
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Re: The Alt Right

Post by Adolf Francolini on Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:31 am

ceaserkhan22 wrote:Actually I would say liberalism is much more variable and flexible than conservatism. Conservatism is guided by the Bible and the Constitution, so it is easy to nail down what conservative values are and where they come from. Liberalism on the other hand doesn't have sources of morality, for liberals morality is relative to the individual, so I would say that way of thinking is far more variable. That is why you see the ideological civil war among the left today. The more classical liberals are in large part anti-islam, since Islam is fundamentally against everything the the left stands for such as on women's rights and gay issues. On the other side you have the SJW types who call anyone who criticizes Islam a racist bigot. These two leftist ideologies contradict each other. Also I would disagree that gender equality is against Christian values. First wave feminism was spearheaded by Christian organisations such as the WCTU, which ultimately got women the right to vote and have full social equality. It was the later feminist waves that brought about the current state of man- hating feminism.

I would agree that the mainstream right has gradually been forced to the left. The Republican party is a progressive party now. However their are some strains that still hold firm to conservative values, but they are mainly shunned by today's group think army on the left. Now unfortunately the only right wingers people see in the media are the progressive mainstream right and the alt right, both of which have abondoned conservative values.

I suppose it's difficult to talk about 'liberalism' when it can be interpreted to mean different things; I mostly was referring to progressivism as opposed to classical liberalism or libertarianism. Progressive liberalism has the main focus of equality, and attributing morality to perceived victims. This is its consistent attitude, and it is necessarily more consistent than conservatism because there is always another issue to fit the mold. Any 'equalizing' measure that is somewhat acceptable will be pushed by the left, until everyone accepts it, and then the left will find another issue.

For sexuality, first it was assumed men and women had complementary roles, but distinct ones. Men were the providers and protectors, women were the housekeepers and bearers of children, usually. For thousands of years this was more or less the standard. Then, progressive liberalism aimed to make men and women have more equal roles. And I'll admit, some religious organizations had a role. So, eventually, women were given the right to vote, and female 'equality' as an ideal entered the mainstream, where it has continued and intensified to this day. Then, in the 80's particularly, gays started being supported by the left. They became more acceptable until recently gay marriage has been legalized. And now, articles in mainstream newspapers and websites have appeared from the perspectives of pedophiles, and people who engage in bestiality. I've read many headlines along the lines of "I'm a pedophile, but not a monster", or "even children understand consent", and the thing is, the left is using the same tactic that they've used for every single issue ever before, all of which conservatism has capitulated on. It's not so much a liberal slippery slope, but rather a steady march towards 'equality', which is in my view a false idol, so to speak.

I am not convinced that conservatism has ever had a standard except being slightly to the right of wherever progressive liberalism happens to be. When you say 'mainstream conservatives are sadly like progressives now', to me that reads as 'conservatism has gone farther leftwards once again, just like it always does'. And the people who still hold on to the conservative values of twenty years ago are left in the dust.
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Re: The Alt Right

Post by ceaserkhan22 on Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:35 am

That is why the left has gone too far. There is no more 'equalizing' to be had. Under current law in the U.S. everyone is currently equal despite ones race, gender, etc... This is actually a problem for the left as they used these former victimized groups for their cause as they were their base for political support. With the current state of equality in this country, the left has to make up ways to make certain groups "victims," which they do with faulty rhetoric so that they can maintain their base of support. This is why we now have third wave feminism, BLM, and other groups that claim to be victims. Also since they abort millions of their own future voters every year they have to ring in illegal immigrants and ineligible voters to break even.

The only thing that i can think of that may not be 100% equal is gender in the military, which in my opinion is a good thing. Women shouldn't be showering with 70 dudes at bootcamp, nor should they be in specific units, especially if they don't fit the physical standards. Biologically men and women are just different, which the left seems to want to ignore despite the fact that they call conservatives "anti-science."

What i'm saying is that mainstream conservatism is continually getting more liberal, which i think is what your saying too. However their are still some conservatives today that haven't been swayed with the waves of liberalism. Honestly, although i'm happy to give my two cents and discuss these issues, i kinda regret posting on this thread as i much rather discuss history then politics when i come on this site.
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Re: The Alt Right

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