Barbarossas Legacy

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Barbarossas Legacy

Post by Brusilov on Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:57 am

Barbarossas Legacy



England won the battle of Bouvines in 1214 and king Phillip II. died in battle.
With no capable king in France, the kingdom fell under English and Spanish rule.
Burgundy made a pact with England and betrayed their French overlords right after the battle of Bouvines.
Barbarossa managed to unite the Holy Roman Empire in one nation, which then quickly fell apart but not into tiny duchies but rather a half dozen or so bigger ones.
Due to Barbarossa uniting the empire in the 12th century, the dominant dynasty is the “von Hohenstaufen” dynasty. Who pursued a different path than the Habsburgs.
Bavaria, now under von Hohenstaufen rule, remembered its times as the stem duchy of Bavaria in the 10th century and reclaimed the lands which formerly were under their control. After that they claimed the title of kingdom. They are now the dominant power in the former empire, since Austria simply doesn’t exist.
Brandenburg didn’t rise to power much in Germany. Since the von Hohenzollern dynasty didn’t make it up north from their native lands in Württemberg and Swabia.
Venice rose to unthinkable heights and now has many more trading posts and cities than ever before.
Their fleet is the most feared one all around the Mediterranean.
They even managed to conquer Carthage (Tunis), which they acquired by winning a trade war against the sultanate of Tunesia and the the mamluk sultanate.
They destroyed nearly the entirety of the combined muslim fleet.
The papal state (now a shadow of its former self) managed to grapple onto Rome. Since Barbarossa managed to unite Italy, most of the papal lands fell under imperial rule and later under the rule of the kingdom of Italy.
The duchy of Savoy (now known as the Kingdom of Piedmont) got a lot of land from France during the English conquest of French lands. They are a good ally to England alongside Burgundy. The piedmontese reign extended from the Mediterranean up to Switzerland and France. They are a major power and a force to be reckoned with.



The mongols never invade Russia and the Ukrainian steppes. Instead the already existing nomad horde of the Pechenegs gets pushed back to the Volga river by the Russian duchies.
With no mongols in Russia, the Byzantines seize control over all of Crimea and fort Tana (Rostov on Don).
They also subjugate numerous orthodox tribes in the Krasnodar area. The Byzantines fight wars over the Aegean islands and Crimea against Venice and win all of them, despite the venetians having a larger fleet.
With no oppressors or real threats at their doorstep like the mongols, Novgorod expands south, seizing the trade center of Moscow and the famous cities of Ryazan and Tver. They become the dominant power in eastern Europe.
Denmark has a personal union with Sweden and proclaims the Scandinavian alliance. This alliance functions kind of like Venice in the Mediterranean, seeking trade opportunities.
Poland is now only a minor power, despite its pompous name. Since the Russian duchies are not weak due to the mongols and since they’re not fighting each other for control of a city, the Poles and Lithuanians were not able to subjugate them.
Due to the absence of the mongol khanates, Islam doesn’t spread to Russia. So the population is mainly orthodox Christian (Except for Lithuania, the orders, the free cities, Hungary, Poland and Scandinavia). The Pechenegs stay true to their old gods and continue practicing the Tengri faith.


As always, keep the opinions coming.
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Re: Barbarossas Legacy

Post by Mr Trolldemort on Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:43 pm

Awesome extension to your previous scenario. Personally I think Novogorod was one of the most interesting countries in Eastern Europe since it was a merchant republic outside of Italy which was quite unlikely to happen. Not only that, but Novogorod would probably expand both to the east against the Pechnegs and other tribes and to the west with a much weaker Poland and Lithuania, which would mean the Republican form of government would become much more common way earlier in time than in our timeline, although it would probably not be as democratic as ours.

Not only that, but with all these trade centres and mercantilism forms of governments occuring so quickly, it means Europe would develop Capitalism much sooner than ours, which means technology and wealth skyrockets compared to our timeline.

I also think without the Ottomans capturing Constantinople and blocking the Silk Route, there is no incentive to find an alternate route to Asia, which probably means North and South American would not be discovered by the Europeans until much later, probably when the Russians (I'm assuming Novgorod would use the title later to better unite the area as they slowly take over more places) expand to the end of Asia and set up trading posts on the West coast of North America.

I also think the conflicts between Catholic and Orthodox countries would escalate even further without the common enemy of Islam outside of the Middle East and with two extremely powerful Orthodox countries in Eastern Europe.
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Re: Barbarossas Legacy

Post by Brusilov on Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:36 pm

Mr Trolldemort wrote:Awesome extension to your previous scenario.  Personally I think Novogorod was one of the most interesting countries in Eastern Europe since it was a merchant republic outside of Italy which was quite unlikely to happen.  Not only that, but Novogorod would probably expand both to the east against the Pechnegs and other tribes and to the west with a much weaker Poland and Lithuania, which would mean the Republican form of government would become much more common way earlier in time than in our timeline, although it would probably not be as democratic as ours.  

Not only that, but with all these trade centres and mercantilism forms of governments occuring so quickly, it means Europe would develop Capitalism much sooner than ours, which means technology and wealth skyrockets compared to our timeline.  

I also think without the Ottomans capturing Constantinople and blocking the Silk Route, there is no incentive to find an alternate route to Asia, which probably means North and South American would not be discovered by the Europeans until much later, probably when the Russians (I'm assuming Novgorod would use the title later to better unite the area as they slowly take over more places) expand to the end of Asia and set up trading posts on the West coast of North America.

I also think the conflicts between Catholic and Orthodox countries would escalate even further without the common enemy of Islam outside of the Middle East and with two extremely powerful Orthodox countries in Eastern Europe.  
Yeah, you are absolutely right, had the same thoughts in my head Smile
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