What if Greece Joined the Axis Powers?

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What if Greece Joined the Axis Powers?

Post by normie™ on Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:41 pm

So, for those who don't know, in our timeline, in 1936, King George II (of Greece) and Ioannis Metaxas reached an agreement which installed Metaxas as the head of the 4th of August Regime, sometimes also called the Metaxas Regime, which ruled Greece on and off until 1974. However, despite being an authoritarian regime, Greece still remained on good terms with the United Kingdom instead of associating with Germany and its allies. Then, while fighting the Greco-Italian War in 1940, which was  technically a part of the much larger World War Two, Greece scored the first Allied victory against Axis land forces by repelling the Italian invasion, although they were occupied by June of the following year.

*Cody voice*
Now, this begs the question- what if, however unlikely this may be, with their rather poor relations with Italy due to Italian claims to land owned and/or claimed by Greece, Ioannis' regime fought alongside the Axis powers during World War Two? How could this change the war in the Balkans, the Mediterranean, North Africa or the Middle East? And if the Allies still triumphed in the end, how might this defeat affect the current state of Greece?

This scenario has been bugging me for awhile, and I figured there was no better way to figure it out than to collaborate with some of my history buffs. Now, theorize away!
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Re: What if Greece Joined the Axis Powers?

Post by GeorgeIVofBritannia on Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:46 pm

Wait people care about this?
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Re: What if Greece Joined the Axis Powers?

Post by Mr Trolldemort on Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:08 pm

Probably woudn't change that much. To be frank, Greece was not a major power even if they were helping. Sure, it would help the axis out of a bit not having to face rebellions and wasting troops and resources containing greece, but it wouldn't be enough to change the war significantly. The only difference I see between Greece being part of the axis vs the allies is Greece would then be occupied by the Soviets at the end of ww2. No greek civil war happening, and the Eastern part of europe now completely under communist control, making the USSR feel more secure. Also mean greece would be not as economically successful as in our timeline. Following the USSR breakup, greece would be much poorer our history (well...before the debt problem they have now). Also means they would join the EU much later but besides that i doubt much would change compared to our own history.
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Re: What if Greece Joined the Axis Powers?

Post by IrishHistorian67 on Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:24 pm

Massive difference actually. Hitler would have been able to invade Russia earlier, getting more Summer campaigning and effectively Blitzkrieging the shit out of Russia, taking Moscow. The reason the invasion of the USSR was delayed was due to the Getmans having to go in and help the Italians in Greece. Greece in the axis means an extra month and a half in Russia for the German army, a month and a half they needed to finish the Soviets off.

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Re: What if Greece Joined the Axis Powers?

Post by Conquerer1234 on Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:26 pm

GeorgeIVofBritannia wrote:Wait people care about this?
I agree with this also... I mean I don't really care about Balkan history that much either, (mainly because you will hear one side or the other complaining about Nationalism) but Greece would have fallen to the Soviets or the Brits at the end of the War anyways.
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Re: What if Greece Joined the Axis Powers?

Post by Retro on Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:32 pm

IrishHistorian67 wrote:Massive difference actually. Hitler would have been able to invade Russia earlier, getting more Summer campaigning and effectively Blitzkrieging the shit out of Russia, taking Moscow. The reason the invasion of the USSR was delayed was due to the Getmans having to go in and help the Italians in Greece. Greece in the axis means an extra month and a half in Russia for the German army, a month and a half they needed to finish the Soviets off.

An extra month and a half is a lot, however I doubt they would be able to force the USSR to surrender. Even if they took Moscow, Stalingrad, and Leningrad, the USSR would not give up. Granted they would be extremely weak, having 3 of their largest cities occupied by the enemy, but after the invasion of Normandy, the Germans would not be able to keep the vast front in the cold Russian land. Again, it was attrition that forced the Germans back as well. it wouldn't matter if the Germans invaded earlier, it's just how much supplies it can force through the Russian lands. If Greece joined the war, they might have been sent off alongside the Romanian soldiers to flank Stalingrad. Maybe then they would have been successful. With the capture of Stalingrad, the Germans could easily conquer the caucus oil fields. But, pushing further would be mind blowing to me.

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Re: What if Greece Joined the Axis Powers?

Post by Aaronklk on Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:35 pm

More success in Russia for the Axis but would likely still lose.
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Re: What if Greece Joined the Axis Powers?

Post by normie™ on Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:35 pm

Wholeheartedly agree with Retro (actually, I was typing practically the same thing before they responded :p)
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Re: What if Greece Joined the Axis Powers?

Post by Retro on Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:36 pm

normie™ wrote:Wholeheartedly agree with Retro (actually, I was typing practically the same thing before they responded :p)

Good to see there are a lot of different point of views in history though. could make some interesting conversations.

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Re: What if Greece Joined the Axis Powers?

Post by normie™ on Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:44 pm

Conquerer1234 wrote:
GeorgeIVofBritannia wrote:Wait people care about this?
I agree with this also... I mean I don't really care about Balkan history that much either, (mainly because you will hear one side or the other complaining about Nationalism) but Greece would have fallen to the Soviets or the Brits at the end of the War anyways.

In my opinion, with Greece's rather weak navy, especially when compared to its fellow contenders, Britain might have invaded Greece as early as 1940, although somewhere around 1944 is far more probable, considering the invasions of France and Italy. Then, even with support from its fellow Axis powers, its likely Greece would've been helpless to stop the invasion, and a British occupation would be likely before the end of the war. Of course, this would likely result in fighting in Thrace, Macedonia, and Epirus, but it's likely the Allies would've held their ground until the end of the war.
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Re: What if Greece Joined the Axis Powers?

Post by EmperorTigerstar on Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:26 pm

If Greece joined the Axis, it would overall only delay Allied victory by a few weeks at most. It might even be sooner since the Greeks could easily be overrun by a British force landing in Athens or something.
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Re: What if Greece Joined the Axis Powers?

Post by BCMatsuyama on Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:46 pm

If HOI has taught me anything, it's to not get bogged down in the Balkans
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Re: What if Greece Joined the Axis Powers?

Post by Napoleon Bonaparte on Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:16 pm

Same ending
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Re: What if Greece Joined the Axis Powers?

Post by Kim Jong-un on Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:58 pm

IrishHistorian67 wrote:Massive difference actually. Hitler would have been able to invade Russia earlier, getting more Summer campaigning and effectively Blitzkrieging the shit out of Russia, taking Moscow. The reason the invasion of the USSR was delayed was due to the Getmans having to go in and help the Italians in Greece. Greece in the axis means an extra month and a half in Russia for the German army, a month and a half they needed to finish the Soviets off.

I wholeheartedly agree with this assessment. After all, Greece was the primary reason Operation Barbarossa failed. If only Germany hadn't gotten bogged down in the Balkans, they would have had enough time to seize Moscow before winter. The Soviet command structure would probably break down and Stalin's government might even collapse. Leningrad would probably surrender out of despair as they'd no longer have any external means of rescue. If the Germans could take Stalingrad, they'd have access to the vast Caucasian oil fields, which would give them a huge influx of resources. After crushing the bulk of the Soviet forces, the Germans could afford to dig in for the winter and redeploy many of their forces to other theaters of operation, particularly North Africa. With the resources gained from Eastern Europe, they'd be able to overpower the British Empire and drain their capacity to fight until they were forced to capitulate and sign some sort of peace with Germany. Then, after having eliminated all external opposition, the Germans be free to march across Russia, topple the Communist regime, suppress any local resistance fronts, explore the vast lands now available to them, enslave the local Slavic populace, and achieve the Lebensraum they wanted.
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Re: What if Greece Joined the Axis Powers?

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