What is Socialism and times it works

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What is Socialism and times it works

Post by Last_surprise_commieV3 on Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:12 pm

Sense there is a lot of confusion.And I do not want to have a debates that go nowhere I am going to link you guys to 2 videos about Socialism and Communism.1st video is about what is Socialism and Communism and the forms of it. And 2nd video is about when Socialism has worked.Enhoy the videos that I linked to you.

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Re: What is Socialism and times it works

Post by Octagon History on Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:29 pm

The first video is a good explanation of topic. However it does directly contradict the second one as many,not all,but many of the figures discussed established states more similar to democratic socalism than actual socialism.
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Re: What is Socialism and times it works

Post by leo_the_greatest on Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:40 pm

Any Bolsheviks or other Authoritarian Socialists may disagree with me, but socialism has never really been achieved outside of a few small instances such as with Catalonia during the Spanish Civil War. This is because socialism and even true communism go hand-in-hand with anarchism in that it puts power in the hands of the populous without state intervention. Rather, worker's councils would intervene in the economy in order to implement environmental regulations and a social safety net.

What is commonly referred to as "Communism" or "Socialism" is more realistically left-totalitarianism which is just a different way of going about organizing a government like any other. This is evident as most of the fear-mongering that took place in the U.S. over communism has become a reality in the form of the surveillance state, media propaganda machine, and militarized police force.
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Re: What is Socialism and times it works

Post by EmperorTigerstar on Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:14 pm

leo_the_greatest wrote:Any Bolsheviks or other Authoritarian Socialists may disagree with me, but socialism has never really been achieved outside of a few small instances such as with Catalonia during the Spanish Civil War. This is because socialism and even true communism go hand-in-hand with anarchism in that it puts power in the hands of the populous without state intervention. Rather, worker's councils would intervene in the economy in order to implement environmental regulations and a social safety net.

What is commonly referred to as "Communism" or "Socialism" is more realistically left-totalitarianism which is just a different way of going about organizing a government like any other. This is evident as most of the fear-mongering that took place in the U.S. over communism has become a reality in the form of the surveillance state, media propaganda machine, and militarized police force.

Socialism without anarchism exists in plenty of aspects.

Public libraries are a good example.
Or the fire departments.
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Re: What is Socialism and times it works

Post by leo_the_greatest on Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:26 pm

EmperorTigerstar wrote:
leo_the_greatest wrote:Any Bolsheviks or other Authoritarian Socialists may disagree with me, but socialism has never really been achieved outside of a few small instances such as with Catalonia during the Spanish Civil War. This is because socialism and even true communism go hand-in-hand with anarchism in that it puts power in the hands of the populous without state intervention. Rather, worker's councils would intervene in the economy in order to implement environmental regulations and a social safety net.

What is commonly referred to as "Communism" or "Socialism" is more realistically left-totalitarianism which is just a different way of going about organizing a government like any other. This is evident as most of the fear-mongering that took place in the U.S. over communism has become a reality in the form of the surveillance state, media propaganda machine, and militarized police force.

Socialism without anarchism exists in plenty of aspects.

Public libraries are a good example.
Or the fire departments.

Of course socialist aspects exist within our society as liberalized social democracies have become the norm for developed nations to function under. I was aiming more at the fundamental concept of worker ownership throughout all of society.
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Re: What is Socialism and times it works

Post by Panteni on Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:43 am

There is a large difference between a country that adopts socalist ideas, and a socialist country. Yes, socialism is a good idea when talking about water, public transport and many other things. But it lacks in the lifeblood of a country: production, efficiency and trade. Socialist countries sooner or later fall because it is a system in which everybody has to agree and play their part. And well... since we're dealing with humans no ideology can be fully implemented. As such you can't really have a country that is functional on the long term when completely adopting a socialist structure. Especially when it comes from the top down.

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Re: What is Socialism and times it works

Post by Octagon History on Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:02 am

Basically think of it like this.

There isn't a big on and off switch that the government uses every time they want to change socio-economic model. They pass bills and laws that ease the process.
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Re: What is Socialism and times it works

Post by HUNDmiau on Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:47 pm

Well, I'd say Yugoslavia was socialist. Because the workers there controlled the means of production, and not the state. It was also market socialist.
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Re: What is Socialism and times it works

Post by DavidlVofGeorgia on Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:19 pm

Worker Co-ops are shown to be more productive than normal companies...while those co-ops are within a capitalist system.

https://www.thenation.com/article/worker-cooperatives-are-more-productive-than-normal-companies/

Socialism can exist and thrive within Capitalism (worker co-ops, libraries, Fire departments, ect.) but a Socialist revolution will not allow capitalism.

Capitalism is a tolerant ideology but revolutionary socialism is intolerant.
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Re: What is Socialism and times it works

Post by King of Wurrtemburg on Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:44 am

In terms of Socialism, in Karl Marx's book he specified that a country must go through feudal and capitalist stages before becoming a Communist state. Their has not been one successful"Communist revolution" that has ever happened in a non agriculture based society. Marx died in the 1880s during the height of the gilded age and couldn't have foreseen that Capitalist nations would enact reforms to make workers lives more bearable and less likely to revolt. Meanwhile in agricultural, autocratic society's, even though the society's weren't "ready" for a Marxist revolution, those ideas had far more appeal. Marx was using history and the conditions of his day to predict the future, and this meant that future events he didn't foresee were not part of his calculations.

In industrial countries like Germany(probably the industrial state that came the closest to becoming Communist) what tended to happen was that Socialist Party's that began as revolutionaries, became content with enacting policies using existing political structures and convinced revolution wasn't necessary. Thus the minority of Socialists who still believed in revolution became Communists while the majority became the fathers of the modern Social Democracy.

The whole point of Communism was to have the workers own the means of production but if one has a revolution before such means exist that's a problem. Thus we say all this artificial industrialization which killed millions of people in Russia and China. I am a firm believer that Communism is impossible and unnecessary while Social Democracy is the main positive legacy of Marx's work even if unintended.

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