Fascism Debate

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Re: Fascism Debate

Post by Max Hess on Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:55 am

Just think about this:
In a fascist system, this forum would not be possible.
Period.
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Re: Fascism Debate

Post by ceaserkhan22 on Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:23 am

The biggest problem with Fascism is the freedoms it takes away, like how there isn't really freedom of religion since the state basically is the religion. The Catholic church drove Mussolini mad at times, but he couldn't undermine its influence and loose popularity. In fact ironically the Vatican has Mussolini to thank that it is now an independent country. Jews and non-Catholic Christians didn't have it so well.
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Re: Fascism Debate

Post by Lord Yavimaya on Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:42 pm

Adolf Francolini wrote:
It is also necessary to prohibit some socially damaging or degenerate behaviors, which Fascism does generally accomplish, such as drug use, alcohol overconsumption, lewdness, homosexuality, bestiality, and pedophilia. Fascism attempts to create a healthy, safe society, and has generally done a good job of doing so.
Let me translate this for you:
"I want fascism to force people to live how I want them to live."
Now I am not saying that some of the things you listed there aren't bad. I am just saying that it seems to me like you really don't care about the people in this situation, you just care about wherever your own personal moral compass lays. You want to apply your own sense of morality to everyone within your nation.
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Re: Fascism Debate

Post by GrandMarshalSoult on Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:12 am

I find something really funny, some historians have been saying the Nazi's were left wing, which is stupid, their evidence is there nature worship which is nationalism of Germany, some people just don't get it, fascism is extreme right wing.
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Re: Fascism Debate

Post by DuceMoosolini on Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:12 pm

GrandMarshalSoult wrote:I find something really funny, some historians have been saying the Nazi's were left wing, which is stupid, their evidence is there nature worship which is nationalism of Germany, some people just don't get it, fascism is extreme right wing.

There is a reason some people claim the Nazis were/are left wing. It's because fascism in general supports economic policies that are far to the left of modern conservatism. It was even far to the left of Franklin "People Will Say I'm A Leftist" Roosevelt's New Deal. While fascists opposed socialism and communism, they also hated free market capitalism. Fascists claimed to represent a "third option," which usually manifested itself as something between state capitalism and basic interventionism. Private property was not abolished, but all economic activity was required to serve the state. It also meant giving power and resources to businesses they favored and controlled, creating artificial monopolies and effectively establishing state corporations. Certainly not a series of right-wing policies.

HOWEVER,

Fascism is most emphatically not a left-wing ideology. Their quasi-leftist economic views were generally regarded as a secondary concern to their primary ideology, which was one of nationalism, revanchism, and reaction. And while Hitler hated capitalism, it was generally because he viewed it as being controlled by Jews, just like socialism and communism. In fact, Nazi ideology was completely unconcerned with class struggle (an important aspect of leftism), instead seeing the German race as a unifying point where Aryans would rally and oppose international Judaism.

Secondly, a number of political movements seen as fascist I would say can be better described as radical conservatism mixed with corporatism for extra flavor (Francoism/National Catholicism, the Estado Novo, Austrofascism). While conservatives wish to preserve the traditional order, fascists wish to completely reinvent the social order. This is evident by Hitler's racialism, and Mussolini's idea of a "spiritual reawakening," which would occur through military struggle and national pride.

So while fascism doesn't cleanly fit the label of "right-wing," it's closer to the right than the left.
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Re: Fascism Debate

Post by GrandMarshalSoult on Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:22 pm

DuceMoosolini wrote:
GrandMarshalSoult wrote:I find something really funny, some historians have been saying the Nazi's were left wing, which is stupid, their evidence is there nature worship which is nationalism of Germany, some people just don't get it, fascism is extreme right wing.

There is a reason some people claim the Nazis were/are left wing. It's because fascism in general supports economic policies that are far to the left of modern conservatism. It was even far to the left of Franklin "People Will Say I'm A Leftist" Roosevelt's New Deal. While fascists opposed socialism and communism, they also hated free market capitalism. Fascists claimed to represent a "third option," which usually manifested itself as something between state capitalism and basic interventionism. Private property was not abolished, but all economic activity was required to serve the state. It also meant giving power and resources to businesses they favored and controlled, creating artificial monopolies and effectively establishing state corporations. Certainly not a series of right-wing policies.

HOWEVER,

Fascism is most emphatically not a left-wing ideology. Their quasi-leftist economic views were generally regarded as a secondary concern to their primary ideology, which was one of nationalism, revanchism, and reaction. And while Hitler hated capitalism, it was generally because he viewed it as being controlled by Jews, just like socialism and communism. In fact, Nazi ideology was completely unconcerned with class struggle (an important aspect of leftism), instead seeing the German race as a unifying point where Aryans would rally and oppose international Judaism.

Secondly, a number of political movements seen as fascist I would say can be better described as radical conservatism mixed with corporatism for extra flavor (Francoism/National Catholicism, the Estado Novo, Austrofascism). While conservatives wish to preserve the traditional order, fascists wish to completely reinvent the social order. This is evident by Hitler's racialism, and Mussolini's idea of a "spiritual reawakening," which would occur through military struggle and national pride.

So while fascism doesn't cleanly fit the label of "right-wing," it's closer to the right than the left.
Well it was a worshipping GErmany not nature, nature loving doesn't equal left wing either, the ideals of capitalism in it make it right wing, i gtg i'll say mroe later
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Re: Fascism Debate

Post by Cold War Communist on Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:49 pm

Think of a horseshoe.

The moderates are at the center of the horseshoe, way down at the bottom.

The further you go to the right or the left, the further the sides get apart --- except at their most extremes. There's a thin divide there, but they are very much alike. Which is why some people believe that Nazism is radical left.
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Re: Fascism Debate

Post by ceaserkhan22 on Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:00 pm

It's almost more like a ring.

Get to the furthest right and the furthest left and their are very similar traits.

Both extreme left and right are obsessed with race, authoritarian, push identity politics, hate Israel, trade protectionists etc...
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Re: Fascism Debate

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