LGBT stuff threat

Dittatore_Signore_Massimo wrote:

CamiloVargas99 wrote:

Dittatore_Signore_Massimo wrote:I belive that homosexuals have a right to love each other, however, i do not support gay marriage (at least in the catholic church). I also do not support transgenders, since you just cannot be a a woman if you are born as a man or the other way around.

Yeah, that makes total sense. If gay marriage goes against the church's dogma, then of course its ok if it isn't accepted there. The problem comes when a democratic state, which besides protecting the will of the majority should also ensure the rights and freedoms of the minorities, doesn't allow something as basic as marriage with religion as an argument.

And about trasgenders, biologically you are totally right, but whatever they decide to do, it's their right to be left alone and do their own thing and be respected.

In first place, let me tell you that i totally respect your opinion, but the problem is that a lot of times, minorities are treated even better than a native like me in my country (argentina) and they often abuse their power and get people in jail for basically nothing.
Also, no, you cannot let transgender people go arround cutting their gennitals off, if i cut off my arm because i strongly belive it should not be a part of me, is that legal? no.

It's not really cutting one's genitals off, it's replacing one with the other, and it's a form of treatment for severe psychological stress, as I've previously explained. Are we just supposed to let these people live their lives in a perpetual existential crisis when there's a fairly simple solution to solve it?

And besides, comparing genitals to an arm isn't really a good comparison, since although genitals are useful for many things, they're not as vital as an arm (and besides, someone who's had sex change surgery can still urinate and have sex, so what's the issue?)

Crazy Boris wrote:

Dittatore_Signore_Massimo wrote:

CamiloVargas99 wrote:

Dittatore_Signore_Massimo wrote:I belive that homosexuals have a right to love each other, however, i do not support gay marriage (at least in the catholic church). I also do not support transgenders, since you just cannot be a a woman if you are born as a man or the other way around.

Yeah, that makes total sense. If gay marriage goes against the church's dogma, then of course its ok if it isn't accepted there. The problem comes when a democratic state, which besides protecting the will of the majority should also ensure the rights and freedoms of the minorities, doesn't allow something as basic as marriage with religion as an argument.

And about trasgenders, biologically you are totally right, but whatever they decide to do, it's their right to be left alone and do their own thing and be respected.

In first place, let me tell you that i totally respect your opinion, but the problem is that a lot of times, minorities are treated even better than a native like me in my country (argentina) and they often abuse their power and get people in jail for basically nothing.
Also, no, you cannot let transgender people go arround cutting their gennitals off, if i cut off my arm because i strongly belive it should not be a part of me, is that legal? no.

It's not really cutting one's genitals off, it's replacing one with the other, and it's a form of treatment for severe psychological stress, as I've previously explained. Are we just supposed to let these people live their lives in a perpetual existential crisis when there's a fairly simple solution to solve it?

I belive this people should get mental health, here in my country it's full of them and they are constantly found with dark things such as pedophilia, prostitution and other, and the last shitty goverment only game them more rights to do their depraved things, so no.

Dittatore_Signore_Massimo wrote:

Crazy Boris wrote:

Dittatore_Signore_Massimo wrote:

CamiloVargas99 wrote:

Dittatore_Signore_Massimo wrote:I belive that homosexuals have a right to love each other, however, i do not support gay marriage (at least in the catholic church). I also do not support transgenders, since you just cannot be a a woman if you are born as a man or the other way around.

Yeah, that makes total sense. If gay marriage goes against the church's dogma, then of course its ok if it isn't accepted there. The problem comes when a democratic state, which besides protecting the will of the majority should also ensure the rights and freedoms of the minorities, doesn't allow something as basic as marriage with religion as an argument.

And about trasgenders, biologically you are totally right, but whatever they decide to do, it's their right to be left alone and do their own thing and be respected.

In first place, let me tell you that i totally respect your opinion, but the problem is that a lot of times, minorities are treated even better than a native like me in my country (argentina) and they often abuse their power and get people in jail for basically nothing.
Also, no, you cannot let transgender people go arround cutting their gennitals off, if i cut off my arm because i strongly belive it should not be a part of me, is that legal? no.

It's not really cutting one's genitals off, it's replacing one with the other, and it's a form of treatment for severe psychological stress, as I've previously explained. Are we just supposed to let these people live their lives in a perpetual existential crisis when there's a fairly simple solution to solve it?

I belive this people should get mental health, here in my country it's full of them and they are constantly found with dark things such as pedophilia, prostitution and other, and the last shitty goverment only game them more rights to do their depraved things, so no.

It's rather unfair to demonize the whole group based off a few bad apples, no? I'm not saying there aren't trans pedos, but that's a very small minority in the transgender demographic, much as it would be in any other group.

Crazy Boris wrote:

Dittatore_Signore_Massimo wrote:

Crazy Boris wrote:

Dittatore_Signore_Massimo wrote:

CamiloVargas99 wrote:

Dittatore_Signore_Massimo wrote:I belive that homosexuals have a right to love each other, however, i do not support gay marriage (at least in the catholic church). I also do not support transgenders, since you just cannot be a a woman if you are born as a man or the other way around.

Yeah, that makes total sense. If gay marriage goes against the church's dogma, then of course its ok if it isn't accepted there. The problem comes when a democratic state, which besides protecting the will of the majority should also ensure the rights and freedoms of the minorities, doesn't allow something as basic as marriage with religion as an argument.

And about trasgenders, biologically you are totally right, but whatever they decide to do, it's their right to be left alone and do their own thing and be respected.

In first place, let me tell you that i totally respect your opinion, but the problem is that a lot of times, minorities are treated even better than a native like me in my country (argentina) and they often abuse their power and get people in jail for basically nothing.
Also, no, you cannot let transgender people go arround cutting their gennitals off, if i cut off my arm because i strongly belive it should not be a part of me, is that legal? no.

It's not really cutting one's genitals off, it's replacing one with the other, and it's a form of treatment for severe psychological stress, as I've previously explained. Are we just supposed to let these people live their lives in a perpetual existential crisis when there's a fairly simple solution to solve it?

I belive this people should get mental health, here in my country it's full of them and they are constantly found with dark things such as pedophilia, prostitution and other, and the last shitty goverment only game them more rights to do their depraved things, so no.

It's rather unfair to demonize the whole group based off a few bad apples, no? I'm not saying there aren't trans pedos, but that's a very small minority in the transgender demographic, much as it would be in any other group.

You don't understand, here, the last progressive goverment told them to do anything they wanted, so the literally prostitute themselves in the forest and try to lure children, they are not a minority and there are many cases of trans people torturing children here in my country, so no, this people have serious mental problems.

Dittatore_Signore_Massimo wrote:

Crazy Boris wrote:

Dittatore_Signore_Massimo wrote:

Crazy Boris wrote:

Dittatore_Signore_Massimo wrote:

CamiloVargas99 wrote:

Dittatore_Signore_Massimo wrote:I belive that homosexuals have a right to love each other, however, i do not support gay marriage (at least in the catholic church). I also do not support transgenders, since you just cannot be a a woman if you are born as a man or the other way around.

Yeah, that makes total sense. If gay marriage goes against the church's dogma, then of course its ok if it isn't accepted there. The problem comes when a democratic state, which besides protecting the will of the majority should also ensure the rights and freedoms of the minorities, doesn't allow something as basic as marriage with religion as an argument.

And about trasgenders, biologically you are totally right, but whatever they decide to do, it's their right to be left alone and do their own thing and be respected.

In first place, let me tell you that i totally respect your opinion, but the problem is that a lot of times, minorities are treated even better than a native like me in my country (argentina) and they often abuse their power and get people in jail for basically nothing.
Also, no, you cannot let transgender people go arround cutting their gennitals off, if i cut off my arm because i strongly belive it should not be a part of me, is that legal? no.

It's not really cutting one's genitals off, it's replacing one with the other, and it's a form of treatment for severe psychological stress, as I've previously explained. Are we just supposed to let these people live their lives in a perpetual existential crisis when there's a fairly simple solution to solve it?

I belive this people should get mental health, here in my country it's full of them and they are constantly found with dark things such as pedophilia, prostitution and other, and the last shitty goverment only game them more rights to do their depraved things, so no.

It's rather unfair to demonize the whole group based off a few bad apples, no? I'm not saying there aren't trans pedos, but that's a very small minority in the transgender demographic, much as it would be in any other group.

You don't understand, here, the last progressive goverment told them to do anything they wanted, so the literally prostitute themselves in the forest and try to lure children, they are not a minority and there are many cases of trans people torturing children here in my country, so no, this people have serious mental problems.

You're missing my point here, just because some people in a group are bad, doesn;t mean they're all like that. I have a ton of transgender friends (by which I mean like, 6), and I can say with absolute certainty that none of them are questionable individuals like that, and you have absolutley zero evidence that they are. Tell me, have you actually ever met a trans person? The problem here is that you're making these blanket accusations of a diverse group with no evidence other than a random anecdote that for all I know is totally made up.

Sorry if I'm getting a bit heated, it's just that I tend to take these things a bit personally because of my friends.

Dittatore_Signore_Massimo wrote:

Crazy Boris wrote:

Dittatore_Signore_Massimo wrote:

Crazy Boris wrote:

Dittatore_Signore_Massimo wrote:

CamiloVargas99 wrote:

Dittatore_Signore_Massimo wrote:I belive that homosexuals have a right to love each other, however, i do not support gay marriage (at least in the catholic church). I also do not support transgenders, since you just cannot be a a woman if you are born as a man or the other way around.

Yeah, that makes total sense. If gay marriage goes against the church's dogma, then of course its ok if it isn't accepted there. The problem comes when a democratic state, which besides protecting the will of the majority should also ensure the rights and freedoms of the minorities, doesn't allow something as basic as marriage with religion as an argument.

And about trasgenders, biologically you are totally right, but whatever they decide to do, it's their right to be left alone and do their own thing and be respected.

In first place, let me tell you that i totally respect your opinion, but the problem is that a lot of times, minorities are treated even better than a native like me in my country (argentina) and they often abuse their power and get people in jail for basically nothing.
Also, no, you cannot let transgender people go arround cutting their gennitals off, if i cut off my arm because i strongly belive it should not be a part of me, is that legal? no.

It's not really cutting one's genitals off, it's replacing one with the other, and it's a form of treatment for severe psychological stress, as I've previously explained. Are we just supposed to let these people live their lives in a perpetual existential crisis when there's a fairly simple solution to solve it?

I belive this people should get mental health, here in my country it's full of them and they are constantly found with dark things such as pedophilia, prostitution and other, and the last shitty goverment only game them more rights to do their depraved things, so no.

It's rather unfair to demonize the whole group based off a few bad apples, no? I'm not saying there aren't trans pedos, but that's a very small minority in the transgender demographic, much as it would be in any other group.

You don't understand, here, the last progressive goverment told them to do anything they wanted, so the literally prostitute themselves in the forest and try to lure children, they are not a minority and there are many cases of trans people torturing children here in my country, so no, this people have serious mental problems.

I get ya, I am not a fan of the Kirchners either (btw, we neighbors! I am from Chile) but c'mon, you know they fucked up in many ways, and left-wing governments just don't know how to deal with some issues. That doesn't mean that whatever happened in Argentina (which I am honestly not very informed about) will happen to other countries. If a transgender person was mentally diagnosed and the only solution to their emotional grief was the surgery, why worry about that? At the end, using a minority group to generalize the whole population (like saying transgenders are dangerous to children because the might "lure the children") is not really a good reason to deny a really diverse group the type of medical help they need.

Dittatore_Signore_Massimo wrote:

CamiloVargas99 wrote:

Dittatore_Signore_Massimo wrote:I belive that homosexuals have a right to love each other, however, i do not support gay marriage (at least in the catholic church). I also do not support transgenders, since you just cannot be a a woman if you are born as a man or the other way around.

Yeah, that makes total sense. If gay marriage goes against the church's dogma, then of course its ok if it isn't accepted there. The problem comes when a democratic state, which besides protecting the will of the majority should also ensure the rights and freedoms of the minorities, doesn't allow something as basic as marriage with religion as an argument.

And about trasgenders, biologically you are totally right, but whatever they decide to do, it's their right to be left alone and do their own thing and be respected.

In first place, let me tell you that i totally respect your opinion, but the problem is that a lot of times, minorities are treated even better than a native like me in my country (argentina) and they often abuse their power and get people in jail for basically nothing.
Also, no, you cannot let transgender people go arround cutting their gennitals off, if i cut off my arm because i strongly belive it should not be a part of me, is that legal? no.

Technically it is legal to cut off your arm, it's just stupid.

Also about minorities, you are completely right. Affirmative action is a load of Bullshit.

It's very simple. Every person has the right to love whom they want to love and be who they think they are. As afraid as John might be of homosexuality, he will not die a miserable death if Paul decides to marry Steve or if Jeff decides his name is Jill. LGBT individuals are not hurting anyone, and their decisions affect only themselves. It's none of your business whether Paul and Steve can have their own personal relationship, and it's even less of your business how Jill dresses and identifies herself. Just deal with it and stop interfering in people's individual liberties.

Identify yourself however you want, as long as you don't interfere with my personal liberty by making me identify you as a woman when your a biological man, or vice versa.

ceaserkhan22 wrote:Identify yourself however you want, as long as you don't interfere with my personal liberty by making me identify you as a woman when your a biological man, or vice versa.

I didn't know telling other people what gender they are is a personal liberty. Where I come from, you call people what they want to be called; that's called courtesy. And no one's making you identify anyone as anything. You have every right to tell Jill that her name is Jeff and to shove your fingers in your ears and sing a song whenever she exercises her personal liberty and identifies herself as Jill, but that's not very polite.

Max Hess wrote:

I didn't know telling other people what gender they are is a personal liberty. Where I come from, you call people what they want to be called; that's called courtesy. And no one's making you identify anyone as anything. You have every right to tell Jill that her name is Jeff and to shove your fingers in your ears and sing a song whenever she exercises her personal liberty and identifies herself as Jill, but that's not very polite.

Well i don't know where you come from, but your obviously not from Canada. "And no one's making you identify anyone as anything" - clearly you haven't heard of Bill C-16, in which you can literally go to prison for "mis-gendering" someone. When you force someone to do something at the threat of legal action, its no longer a "courtesy" to do it, its a compulsory obligation, which is an infringement on personal liberty. Whether its polite doesn't matter when its obligatory and not based in truth. If Jim wants to call himself a women, then he can go ahead, but i'm not going to be forced to play his game. Obviously I wouldn't be in favor of jailing people who want to call themselves by a gender that they aren't and i would hope you wouldn't want to jail people who simply believe in biology.

ceaserkhan22 wrote:Well i don't know where you come from, but your obviously not from Canada. "And no one's making you identify anyone as anything" - clearly you haven't heard of Bill C-16, in which you can literally go to prison for "mis-gendering" someone. When you force someone to do something at the threat of legal action, its no longer a "courtesy" to do it, its a compulsory obligation, which is an infringement on personal liberty. Whether its polite doesn't matter when its obligatory and not based in truth. If Jim wants to call himself a women, then he can go ahead, but i'm not going to be forced to play his game. Obviously I wouldn't be in favor of jailing people who want to call themselves by a gender that they aren't and i would hope you wouldn't want to jail people who simply believe in biology.

Your assessment of the provisions of Bill C-16 is severely inaccurate. The bill amends the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Canadian Criminal Code by recognizing transgender people as a federally protected class, establishing legal penalties for overt discrimination against them in services and employment, and recognizing transphobic motivation as an aggravating factor in the prosecution of violent hate crimes against transgender persons. You still cannot go to prison for "mis-gendering" someone. The bill does not in any way abridge your freedom of speech (unless you consider advocating literal genocide against the transgender community to be a form of protected speech). No one is forcing you to do or say anything.

Max Hess wrote:
Your assessment of the provisions of Bill C-16 is severely inaccurate. The bill amends the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Canadian Criminal Code by recognizing transgender people as a federally protected class, establishing legal penalties for overt discrimination against them in services and employment, and recognizing transphobic motivation as an aggravating factor in the prosecution of violent hate crimes against transgender persons. You still cannot go to prison for "mis-gendering" someone. The bill does not in any way abridge your freedom of speech (unless you consider advocating literal genocide against the transgender community to be a form of protected speech). No one is forcing you to do or say anything.

You can in fact go to jail. Bill C-16 includes government-mandated speech which is included in the Ontario Human Rights Code. The OHRC also states that if you refuse to refer to a person by their self-identified pronoun it can can be interpreted as harassment. If accused of this you could be brought before a federal tribunal. This tribunal can then asses you a fine for a crime of "hate speech" or compel you through a cease and desist order to stop using non government-mandated pronouns that don't "misgender" whom in question, and if you refuse prison is the likely punishment until you contempt to satisfy the court.

ceaserkhan22 wrote:You can in fact go to jail. Bill C-16  includes government-mandated speech which is included in the Ontario Human Rights Code. The OHRC also states that if you refuse to refer to a person by their self-identified  pronoun it can can be interpreted as harassment. If accused of this you could be brought before a federal tribunal. This tribunal can then asses you a fine for a crime of "hate speech" or compel you through a cease and desist order to stop using non government-mandated pronouns that don't "misgender" whom in question, and if you refuse prison is the likely punishment until you contempt to satisfy the court.

First, you seem to imply some connection between C-16 (and some kind of "federally mandated speech?") and the OHRC which I don't understand.

Second, I couldn't find any evidence that the provisions you've described are actually included in the OHRC, so I can't consider your claims as factual until you can cite a location in the text of the Code to support your assertions.

C-16 enforces its policies based of the already existing codes of the OHRC, which added "gender identity" to its code in 2012. Harassment on any of the protected classes of the OHRC, including race, ethnicity, sex etc.. can result in legal repercussions and the OHRC considers calling people by a gender they do not consider themselves "harassment" and therefore a crime.

ceaserkhan22 wrote:C-16 enforces its policies based of the already existing codes of the OHRC, which added "gender identity" to its code in 2012. Harassment on any of the protected classes of the OHRC, including race, ethnicity, sex etc.. can result in legal repercussions and the OHRC considers calling people by a gender they do not consider themselves "harassment" and therefore a crime.

First, federal laws are not written to enforce provincial laws. (or whatever you were trying to say; I can't quite decipher the first sentence). Second, I would like to see what part of the OHRC deals with harassment and "mis-gendering."

[quote="Max Hess"]

ceaserkhan22 wrote:
First, federal laws are not written to enforce provincial laws. (or whatever you were trying to say; I can't quite decipher the first sentence). Second, I would like to see what part of the OHRC deals with harassment and "mis-gendering."

C-16 enforces federal laws, but C-16 also borrows the OHRC definitions and codes for how it enforces it when it comes to harassment.

This is on the OHRC website:
"Refusing to refer to a trans person by their chosen name and a personal pronoun that matches their gender identity, or purposely misgendering, will likely be discrimination when it takes place in a social area covered by the Code, including employment, housing and services like education."