Why do Liberals Support Islam?

Arden_Foxx wrote:

Cold War Communist wrote:Huh?

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Cold War Communist wrote:

Or maybe they're Trump is just trying to do the right thing? Does everything liberals Trump do(es) have malicious intent behind it?

I did not say this because I think conservatives are evil/corrupt, or that liberals are less evil/corrupt than conservatives. I said this because recently, it seems that each side alwaysassumes the worst of each other.

(P.S. I'm pretty sure editing a comment in that way is against the rules of the forum. I don't care, but I'm not a moderator)

Your quote was edited to demonstrate that benefit of the doubt goes both ways. I appreciate your concern for the rules of the forum (and indeed, if it does violate the code of conduct, I'll amend it immediately), but since you're not a moderator it just comes off as you trying to wriggle out of accepting an uncomfortable reality. What you're saying isn't reflected in what you're doing. That's important because you're saying we should give others a chance as well. There's no basis to listen to someone who doesn't conform to their own beliefs.

Furthermore we are not at war with Trump, or the GOP. We are at war with a group United by ideology and not statehood. The best we can do is limit how many people share that ideology, however seemlingly little they do, to protect ourselves. That's the typical stance of conservatives, and that's why liberals support it. In a nutshell, that answers the threat question. That's all I have to say.

eggcrate09 wrote:It seems that many Feminists and Liberals (Not lumping them into one,) tend to state that they support Islam even though the religion explicitly states (And many members do practice this,) that you must kill Homosexuals and Apostates. I am looking for an answer from a Liberal or a Feminist (Not lumping them together in case you missed the first part) why you protect Islam from criticism. This is coming from a left leaning centrist. I hope this will be an interesting discussion, toodle loo.

Basically, liberals wants the vote of the minorities, such as blacks, muslims, gays, and even women so they can tell them that the conservatives are oppressing them, that's why many Hillary supporters were crying when Trump one because they thought trump was gonna enslave black people or he's gonna genocide muslims which isn't the case. People need to see it from both sides and understand that in the Quran and Sharia law it even says to kill anyone who turns away from the religion, you can treat women any way you want, you should kill homosexuals or anyone that speaks against the Quran, and the best one, you should kill anyone who states that the Quran contradicts itself (which it does).

There are about 1.7 Billion people who call themselves Muslim, (I added all of the countries that pracitce Sharia in full) There are 449,504,196 Muslims in Sharia following countries (Mauritania, North Sudan,Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Brunei.) (I added up Muslim population in countries that follow Sharia in social issues but not Judicial)There are about 604,257,970 Muslims in countries that follow Sharia in their social systems but not their judicial systems( In Tanzania, Kenya, Uganda, Ethiopia, Somalia, Djibouti, Eritrea, Ghana, Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Kuwait, Bahrain, Oman, India, Bangladesh, and Malaysia) . I will leave out Sharia communities all over the world since there is no way I could get all of them and get an accurate number. So that means that there are 1,053,762,166 Sharia following Muslims (Whether it is Law or Social) It seems as if there is a majority of Sharia following Muslims in the world. (And yes this took me forever to write out)

Cold War Communist wrote:What you're saying isn't reflected in what you're doing.  That's important because you're saying we should give others a chance as well. There's no basis to listen to someone who doesn't conform to their own beliefs.

I added that statement in an attempt aid you, not to break apart your argument. I have no problem listening to your side and respecting your arguments as valid. You, apparently, do not feel the same way.

Cold War Communist wrote:Furthermore we are not at war with Trump, or the GOP. We are at war with a group United by ideology and not statehood. The best we can do is limit how many people share that ideology, however seemlingly little they do, to protect ourselves. That's the typical stance of conservatives, and that's why liberals support it. In a nutshell, that answers the threat question. That's all I have to say.

We are not at war with Islam as a whole, nor should we be. Other than deportation, there is no way you can get millions of Americans to abandon their religion (Unless you count genocide as a viable option). Limiting the spread of Islam in the U.S. is only going to make it seem like the U.S. really is an enemy of Islam. That'll lead to more terrorist attacks and general disunity. In no way shape or form will limiting Islam protect us more.

It's not about supporting Islam, but supporting the rights of muslims regardless of their faith. Not to mention Christianity and Judaism have parts of their holy texts advocating the stoning of homosexuals to death, yet we don't seem to bring that up a lot. That's only because islamic terrorism is the current trend, just as in the past the trends of terrorism were nationalist, anarchist, and anti-imperial forms of terrorism. All religions have flaws, but that first ammendment supporting the right for them to have adherents is all that matters here. Arrest and condemn those who attack others under the name of it, but don't harm the peaceful ones who leave others alone from their faith.

Islam and Judaism may advocate for stoning to death gays, but Christianity definitely does not.

EmperorTigerstar wrote: Arrest and condemn those who attack others under the name of it, but don't harm the peaceful ones who leave others alone from their faith.

Perfect way to describe this argument. But that does not exclude the state murders of Homosexuals and Apostates in Yemen, Brunei, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan, and Mauritania. This discussion is about how Liberals (Not meaning to group everyone together more of the regressive types I am talking about) act like Islam is a 'peaceful religion' despite how it is obviously not. I would even go on to say it is the most murderous religion since the Aztecs, and no I am not talking about a normal person that is a Muslim that lives a normal life that isn't homophobic, and xenophobic, I completely respect the right of that person to be a Muslim. But if someone follows Sharia law willingly and wishes Sharia law upon the West in general then they are a homophobe and a sexist and wish to condone murder because someone is gay, and even though I am left leaning I will never support anyone like that or associate with someone like that, and that seems to be what the regressive left is doing simply because they are a minority in the West.

EDIT: Just wanted to add this Hadith in "The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: If you find anyone doing as Lot’s people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done."
Sunan of Abu-Dawood – Book 38 Hadith 4447


Lots people were homosexuals who had sex, in the Quran all of them were murdered by 2 angels sent by Allah. This Hadith was used to justify Sharia and the murdering of homosexuals.

I think liberals are ultimately well-meaning in this argument, but many of them are doing serious harm. They want to protect the rights of Muslims in America and defend them from bigotry. That's good. But they are also very quick to shut down any discussion of Islam's problems. That's bad.

Islam desperately needs a conversation about its own weaknesses and brutality, and that can't happen if Western liberals keep trying to shut down the conversation by shouting "Islamophobe!" every time someone raises a legitimate criticism. People like Sam Harris and Ayaan Hirsi Ali have come under heavy fire from the left for speaking against the religion of peace's murderous elements. Even though Ali used to be a Muslim and is in hiding because a Muslim killed one of her colleagues.

You can't pretend that terror, theocracy, and torture aren't all very prevalent in the Islamic world. You can't pretend like this isn't a problem Islam has to a greater degree than other religions. You can't pretend like there aren't millions of people who follow this supposedly 'radical' Islamic 'extremism.' Illiberal Islam isn't radical. It's ubiquitous.

We need to have uncomfortable discussions in a modern society. And it's truly pathetic that the same people who gave us Le Pen and Bannon are the same people trying to have a better conversation than the liberals. The problem isn't that liberals defend Islam. It's that they defend it by silencing its critics.

ceaserkhan22 wrote:Islam and Judaism may advocate for stoning to death gays, but Christianity definitely does not.

Leviticus 20:13

Arden_Foxx wrote:

ceaserkhan22 wrote:Islam and Judaism may advocate for stoning to death gays, but Christianity definitely does not.

Leviticus 20:13

Yes, Leviticus is Jewish Law. Christianity is based on Jesus's teachings not the Jewish Law of the old testament. If Jesus believed we should stone gays then he never would have rebuked the pharisees the way he did in John 8:1-11.

ceaserkhan22 wrote:Yes, Leviticus is Jewish Law. Christianity is based on Jesus's teachings not the Jewish Law of the old testament. If Jesus believed we should stone gays then he never would have rebuked the pharisees the way he did in John 8:1-11.

But there is condemnation of homosexuality littered throughout the New Testament as well. And the New Testament is supposed to conform to the teachings of Christ

1 Timothy 1:8-11

Jude 1:5-8

Its clear that in Jude 1:5-8, Christianity retains its view on Homosexuality from the Old Testament, as it references the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, and why it was destroyed.

This isn't a bible study, so i'll leave it at that.

[quote="Arden_Foxx"]

ceaserkhan22 wrote:
But there is condemnation of homosexuality littered throughout the New Testament as well. And the New Testament is supposed to conform to the teachings of Christ

1 Timothy 1:8-11

Jude 1:5-8

Its clear that in Jude 1:5-8, Christianity retains its view on Homosexuality from the Old Testament, as it references the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, and why it was destroyed.  

This isn't a bible study, so i'll leave it at that.

Yes, there is condemnation for homosexuality in the New Testament, I never disputed that. There is condemnation for all sexual immorality in it. What I'm disputing is the claim that Christianity advocates for stoning gays to death. Jesus allowed the prostitute to be stoned to death only by those who have never committed a sin themselves, which is no one that has ever lived (except Jesus himself). Jude 1 in no way advocates for stoning gays, it is talking about the future hell that those in sexual immorality will suffer in as they give themselves unrepentantly to their sexual desires as the people of Sodom and Gomorrah did.

eggcrate09 wrote:It seems that many Feminists and Liberals (Not lumping them into one,) tend to state that they support Islam even though the religion explicitly states (And many members do practice this,) that you must kill Homosexuals and Apostates. I am looking for an answer from a Liberal or a Feminist (Not lumping them together in case you missed the first part) why you protect Islam from criticism. This is coming from a left leaning centrist. I hope this will be an interesting discussion, toodle loo.

It's unfair to say that American liberals "support Islam." Their defense of Islamic rights and efforts to combat Islamophobia stem not from a fondness for Islamic dogma but from a general desire to uphold the principles of diversity, tolerance, and free exercise. One need not agree with the tenets of a given school of political or religious thought, but he is nonetheless obligated to respect each individual's freedom to express their identity and practice their traditional faith.

We aren't really talking about western Islam here because I agree with it as much as a I agree with any other religion. But the majority of Islam is what people would call 'radical' In an earlier post I added every muslim in countries with Social or or full Sharia law the total came out to be 1,053,762,166 Sharia following Muslims out of the 1.7 billion Muslims. I have been called a racist before for debating Islam with these view points (even though I agree with Western Islam and am against Homophobia and Sexism) by a 'Socialist' at my college when we were studying the birth of Islam and rise of the Rashidun Caliphate for my history course. That is not the only case where I have been called an Islamaphobe even though I treat Christianity Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Shintoism, and every other religion the same way and even pointed that out. The reason why I started this discussion is, why is there an exception for Islam? (Thanks to everyone for keeping this intellectual)